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Thread: Church's guide

  1. #1
    Tillyboy's Avatar
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    Default Church's guide

    Originaly Posted by Purple Predator


    Maybe if I post this here... when people search for their church question before asking it (like they all do) they'll see it first.


    Church Info

    Church Belief Radius:

    Level 1: 4 fields in every direction
    Level 2: 6 fields in every direction
    Level 3: 8 fields in every direction


    Church Cost Structure:

    Level 1: 16.000 wood - 20.000 clay - 5.000 iron - 5.000 population
    Level 2: 20.160 wood - 25.600 clay - 6.300 iron - 2.750 population(additional)
    Level 3: 25.402 wood - 32.768 clay - 7.938 iron - 4.263 population(additional)


    Church Build Time Factor:

    Level 1 = 5:40:00
    Level 2 = 6:48:00
    Level 3 = 8:09:36
    The actual build time is calculated by the following formula:
    ([build time factor] * 1.05^(-[level of the village headquarters])) / [world speed]


    Church Point Values:
    Level 1: 10 points
    Level 2: 2 points
    Level 3: 2 points


    Church Build Requirements:

    Level 5 Headquarters and whatever farm level required to hold the population.


    Church Destruction:
    Churches can be catapulted but they take significantly more catapults to drop a level than normal buildings.
    It takes 400 catapults to destroy a lvl 1 church(Please confirm?)
    167 to take lvl 2 to lvl 1(Please confirm?)
    and 125 to take lvl 3 to lvl 2(Please confirm?)
    Or 600 to take lvl 3 down completely. (Please confirm?)
    This is with against a empty, wall-less village with 0% luck, no morale penalty and religious attackers (religion makes no difference to the defence of target buildings)
    "When you noble a village the church 'flies away'" - Morthy

    Church Effect:

    All villages that are not contained within a church radius will have all troops' defensive and attack power reduced to 50%.
    This means that you can attack outside your church's radius, as long as the attacking village is inside it.
    Defending troops take the church effect of the village/person they are defending.


    Exception:

    There is an exception to the above setup/rules. The very first church that you start with will be a church that has a 6 field radius and is 10 points. This church cannot be upgraded at any point. In addition, the original church can't be damaged by catapults.

    EDIT(s):
    • Yes you can demolish your first church. However it would be a huge waste. As when you build it back, it will still just be the same 'first (non-upgradable) church'. You can only move it to another village if you have no other churches.
    • If you lose your first church, you can rebuild it if you have no other churches.
    • Churches only affect your own villages, not allies, not others. Only yours.
    • This church is a different one to the one that built priests on the early German servers.
    • Barbs/Bonus will not be affected by churches (I.E spiking villages)
    • All calculations of religion will be done at landing time.
    • Having religion/belief at two or more has no effect. It’s just to inform you that your village is under the effect of two churches, you receive no extra bonus for it.
    • First churches take less than 15minutes to build at any level HQ. (Please confirm?)

    Original post can be found: http://forum.tribalwars.net/showthread.php?t=109005

  2. #2

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    Here's my guide I made back in the original church world of .net. As far as I'm aware, things aren't different here, and this guide, along with the facts by one of the above poster should be rather informative. I'd hope so anyway Note that the images may not be entirely accurate but are close and give a general idea.

    This is, hopefully, a useful and the first guide made on .net regarding churches. It should give you a clearer understanding of the purposes of the church, how to use it strategically in the best possible way and a more detailed and in-depth use of it. Before we start, I'll present you with some simple info on the Church (Given by PP):

    Church Point Values:

    Level 1: 10 points
    Level 2: 2 points
    Level 3: 2 points

    Church Build Requirements:

    Level 5 Headquarters and whatever farm level required to hold the population.

    Church Destruction:

    Churches can be catapulted but they take significantly more catapults to drop a level than normal buildings.

    Church Effect:

    All villages that are not contained within a church radius will have all troops' defensive and attack power reduced to 50%.

    Church Build Time Factor:

    Level 1 = 5:40:00
    Level 2 = 6:48:00
    Level 3 = 8:09:36

    The actual build time is calculated by the following formula:

    ([build time factor] * 1.05^(-[level of the village headquarters])) / [world speed]

    Exception:

    There is an exception to the above setup/rules. The very first church that you start with will be a church that has a 6 field radius and is 10 points. This church can not be upgraded at any point. In addition, the original church can't be damaged by catapults.

    So you've probably got your 1st village and wondering how to use/what to use the Church for. The church level covers I believe the radius of a level 2 church and can not be upgraded so no problems there. Roughly, A ratio of 2:2:1, Offensive:Defensive:Scout/Cats villages is what you should/could be going with as an average player. Others will go for more O whilst others go for more D. It all comes down with personal preference and the way in which you're willing to experiment with the new church feature.

    However, 1 in 5 villages having a church at level 3 should be enough in-order to avoid being crippled when/if you lose a church village but not so many you weaken yourself too far (due to a level 3 church taking 12k Population).
    I would also advise not increasing your churches level above 1 till you have multiple/1+ village(s) as you can't make your first village Scout/Cats and its radius doesn't matter if it's your 1st village. Anyway, here is the radius of a level 3 church. It covers roughly 17x17 with shaped corners:



    Also, I think it would be important I mention that there are 2 kinds of churches. One of them (the kind you automatically start with in your first village) can only exist in 1 village, similar to a paladin, and cannot be upgraded. This kind of church has an area of influence with a radius of 6 fields(Level 2 radius wise). The other kind, which you can make in any village, is like this:

    Level 1: 4 fields radius
    Level 2: 6 fields radius
    Level 3: 8 fields radius



    The introduction of the church will alter many players' game play and strategies. Obviously an aggressive strategy where you spread out your starting villages to maximize farming might have to be changed as it will be harder to attack from/defend villages too far from the main village. Also, people aren't going to be able to afford to allocate that much farm space to create church/cat or church/scout villages early on.

    This is where Logical Positioning kicks into place. Clustering villages and over-lapping radiuses are far more important now. You will most likely need to pair villages, going for a Defence/Church village next to an Offense village early on. It could possibly mean that taking a smaller village in a tighter cluster might be more beneficial than spreading out too much to take bigger villages that might be outside the influence of the Church, which will affect Offensive players more than defensive. You will have to think very carefully when and where you noble. Nobling too far out could prove to damage you. You may want to analyze your area carefully before deciding. Have a look at this for example:



    Note: The black circle is another radius. However, it isn't entirely accurate but you get the point; Over-lapping is crucial and will give you an advantage. In the map, you have 5 villages. 2 have churches (level 3). It should be the one in the white square and the one in-between the blue and black circle. As you can see, the over-lapping area is bigger so should you lose either village, you won’t be in a very vulnerable position. Keep this concept going, 5 vills, 2 churches, 10 vills, 4 churches, 15 vills, 6 churches etc etc. I believe the main purpose of this feature is to encourage/increase cluster whoring, making it harder to expand effectively and cause more close range warring.

    With your 1st village and the others, later you may want to noble in similar positioning as the below image. It'll allow you to expand as efficient and effective enough without lowering your strength in both offense and defence by 50%. As you can/will be able to see, you can expand further west and east. Same applies with the north and the south.



    After some thorough discussion, here are some generalized conclusions which should be followed. However, there may be exceptions but here are the rules.

    - Do not build churches in offensive villages. You can stack Defence’s but you can't stack nukes. This will be far more beneficial if you use the HC strategy or have a nuke which consists of a decent number of HC allowing you to shift HC/Support quickly between your villages.

    - It would be more logical to make a small cluster of vills, make the middle 1 the scout with a level 3 church. Should be self explanatory by now, if not read above again if needs be .

    - Scout villages should have level 3 churches. This is generally the rule but an exception of keeping 1 village with the maximum possible scouts would be ideal.

    A problem which people may face is that the village which has the most attention/points will most likely have the most defence. However, thinking about it, this opens more tactical options, for example; mass faking on the starting village which removes troops/attention on the others and makes nobling of the other village’s alot easier. A tactic to counter this would be to spend some time, working on a village build which will make all your villages the same. It'll disguise the village your church(es) are in. I'm currently working on builds for:

    • Offensive Village; No Church
    • Offensive Village; Nobles
    • Defensive Village; No Church
    • Defensive Village; Church
    • Scout/Cat Village; Church
    • Scout Village; No Church


    This includes not only points but calculating troop counts so you have no troop population remaining. This way you are maxing the efficency of your village whilst disguising them so they all have the same points making it impossible/much harder for your opponent to not only identify your church village but what type of village each on is. Only T*F have/will have access to this info so don't get your e-peen up

    To finalize, I'll leave you with an excel image of precise numbers and times of the churches settings to give you a clearer idea of requirements whilst you're reading this.



    A thanks to Wizzydizzy, User Not Found, King Bowsa Koopa and 1-2 more for their input/say in this guide during our Skype conversation(s). I also got into contact with a few German server players and extracted some info from their experience. Although they've only played with Churches with Priests, it's the same concept.

    So now, go add this to your tribes forum if you wish, let's increase the quality of world 1 even more than it already is! Thanks for reading, hope you learnt and enjoyed. I certainly did!

    I ACCEPT NEGS IN ABUNDANCE

  3. #3
    Tillyboy's Avatar
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    Whoa.

    Since when did I make this thread >.>

    Did I get amnesia or something?

  4. #4

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    You didnt, it was moved
    People must think your pretty good...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by fluffy88 View Post
    You didnt, it was moved
    People must think your pretty good...
    Oh well then.

    That makes more sense than amnesia >.>

  6. #6

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    A strong suggestion is to use hiding place to hide your churches.

    Build level 10 HP in all villages besides those with churches. Build level 6 Hiding Places in church villages. The rationale is that Level 10 HP is 26 points, Level 3 Church is 14, Level 6 HP is 12. 14 + 12 = 26. This allows you to make it impossible for the enemy to differentiate your church villages at a glance via point differences.

    Disclaimer: Yes I'm aware I posted this in the related thread in the UK 1 forum as well, but I felt it should be seen by people learning about the Chuch in either place.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nauzhror View Post
    A strong suggestion is to use hiding place to hide your churches.

    Build level 10 HP in all villages besides those with churches. Build level 6 Hiding Places in church villages. The rationale is that Level 10 HP is 26 points, Level 3 Church is 14, Level 6 HP is 12. 14 + 12 = 26. This allows you to make it impossible for the enemy to differentiate your church villages at a glance via point differences.

    Disclaimer: Yes I'm aware I posted this in the related thread in the UK 1 forum as well, but I felt it should be seen by people learning about the Chuch in either place.
    That is a neat tactic. I wouldn't have thought to do that

  8. #8

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    Thanks sas.

    Never played a church world "properly".

    Had a short look at TheWall's account on w33 while he was about 150k. This clears certain aspects up.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tillyboy View Post

    • If you lose your first church, you can rebuild it if you have no other churches.


    Original post can be found: http://forum.tribalwars.net/showthread.php?t=109005
    Since Version 5.4 you can rebuild it, even if you still have other, normal churches

    First Church: If a player loses his First Church, he can now rebuild it, even if he still has other, normal churches
    TribalWars Forum > General > Announcements > Version 5.4 Update!
    Marv

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marv79 View Post
    Since Version 5.4 you can rebuild it, even if you still have other, normal churches

    TribalWars Forum > General > Announcements > Version 5.4 Update!
    Is correct, making both these church guides insufficient in my view. Since the above update adds a new dimension in terms of offense and defence. First church is almost free, and takes just 5 minutes to create. That can be used to huge advantage in both offensively and even defensively. Though it actually shifts the advantage to the attacker should they be clever enough to use it.

  11. #11

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    Thats really helpful.

    A big +rep for you

  12. #12

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    Very very nice, big help from both of you.

  13. #13

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    if i attack a barb with troops , do they fight at 50% or 100% . It used to be 50% but i saw somewhere its now 100%. is this true

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thetristanator View Post
    if i attack a barb with troops , do they fight at 50% or 100% . It used to be 50% but i saw somewhere its now 100%. is this true
    Quote Originally Posted by Marv79 View Post
    Since Version 5.4 you can rebuild it, even if you still have other, normal churches

    TribalWars Forum > General > Announcements > Version 5.4 Update!
    Yes!

  15. #15

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    To maintain accurate points in all of my villages, Church or no Church, i had to test out certain configurations. I found one that is 100% accurate on this world, because i used the Help pages to gather my numbers.

    You can also see the efficiency level of villages, Church or no Church.

    Bear in mind, i am only planning to have a level 2 church, level 3 is stupidly expensive.

    Last edited by Almost Easy; 09.06.09 at 14:04.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Almost Easy View Post
    To maintain accurate points in all of my villages, Church or no Church, i had to test out certain configurations. I found one that is 100% accurate on this world, because i used the Help pages to gather my numbers.

    You can also see the efficiency level of villages, Church or no Church.

    Bear in mind, i am only planning to have a level 2 church, level 3 is stupidly expensive.

    I'd never suggest level 1 or 2 churches. Having fewer level 3's and using church villages as specialized hc/cat/scout villages is far better.
    “All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nauzhror View Post
    I'd never suggest level 1 or 2 churches. Having fewer level 3's and using church villages as specialized hc/cat/scout villages is far better.
    Agree 100%. To find a good location i use the level2 radius and place some like a honeycomb on my map (with small spaces) Then i build level3-curches there. That's the easiest and most handy way in my opinion.
    Marv

  18. #18

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    Thanks for your input, this will be my first time on a Church world. Citizen wise, i just figure it would be better to save those 4k citizens, instead of expanding out an extra 2 squares.

    4 for 5k citizens
    8 for 12k citizens
    Seems a bit off when you see you can get 6 for 7.5k

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Almost Easy View Post
    Thanks for your input, this will be my first time on a Church world. Citizen wise, i just figure it would be better to save those 4k citizens, instead of expanding out an extra 2 squares.

    4 for 5k citizens
    8 for 12k citizens
    Seems a bit off when you see you can get 6 for 7.5k
    You're missing a significant point here - You're getting more than 2 squares. You're getting 2 more squares each way.

    The smallest Church covers ~49 squares.
    The next largest covers ~113 squares.
    The very largest covers ~197 squares.

    That's a massive increase in size.

  20. #20

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    In comparison, i suppose that means:

    The smallest Church covers ~49 squares. 4,900 citizens
    The next largest covers ~113 squares. 11,300 citizens
    The very largest covers ~197 squares. 19,700 citizens

    So yeah, i guess that might end up worth while, but looking at the map radius, it doesnt seem to make much difference really. I figured it would be best to stop when i had a bargain at 7.5, which would result in 113 villages. Calculated below:

    1 village with level 2: 113 squares for 7,750 citizens
    1 village with level 3: 197 squares for 12,013 citizens

    3 villages with level 2: 339 squares for 23,250 citizens
    2 villages with level 3: 396 squares for 24,026 citizens

    So it turns out its not much of a bargain after all :)
    Last edited by Almost Easy; 11.06.09 at 11:01.

  21. #21
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    I needed this. I always avoided church worlds on .net, so I really have no idea. So thanks to all the people who posted with help stuff here.

  22. #22
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    If you launch an attack from a village not under a church's influence during the night bonus the defender would essentialy have 4x the troops 0.0

    x2 defenders night bonus and the attacker's strength is .5x

  23. #23
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    Quick copy and paste for ingame forums converted by [player]Wave[/player].
    Instructions: 1)Copy 2)Paste 3) Remove the space of the end of each IMG BB-Code 4)Post into your IG TW Tribal Forums. Cheers Wave.

    Sasuke Uzumakii's Church Guide: Here's my guide I made back in the original church world of .net. As far as I'm aware, things aren't different here, and this guide, along with the facts by one of the above poster should be rather informative. I'd hope so anyway Note that the images may not be entirely accurate but are close and give a general idea.

    This is, hopefully, a useful and the first guide made on .net regarding churches. It should give you a clearer understanding of the purposes of the church, how to use it strategically in the best possible way and a more detailed and in-depth use of it. Before we start, I'll present you with some simple info on the Church (Given by PP):

    Church Point Values:

    Level 1: 10 points
    Level 2: 2 points
    Level 3: 2 points

    Church Build Requirements:

    Level 5 Headquarters and whatever farm level required to hold the population.

    Church Destruction:

    Churches can be catapulted but they take significantly more catapults to drop a level than normal buildings.

    Church Effect:

    All villages that are not contained within a church radius will have all troops' defensive and attack power reduced to 50%.

    Church Build Time Factor:

    Level 1 = 5:40:00
    Level 2 = 6:48:00
    Level 3 = 8:09:36

    The actual build time is calculated by the following formula:

    ([build time factor] * 1.05^(-[level of the village headquarters])) / [world speed]

    Exception:

    There is an exception to the above setup/rules. The very first church that you start with will be a church that has a 6 field radius and is 10 points. This church can not be upgraded at any point. In addition, the original church can't be damaged by catapults.

    So you've probably got your 1st village and wondering how to use/what to use the Church for. The church level covers I believe the radius of a level 2 church and can not be upgraded so no problems there. Roughly, A ratio of 2:2:1, Offensive:Defensive:Scout/Cats villages is what you should/could be going with as an average player. Others will go for more O whilst others go for more D. It all comes down with personal preference and the way in which you're willing to experiment with the new church feature.

    However, 1 in 5 villages having a church at level 3 should be enough in-order to avoid being crippled when/if you lose a church village but not so many you weaken yourself too far (due to a level 3 church taking 12k Population).
    I would also advise not increasing your churches level above 1 till you have multiple/1+ village(s) as you can't make your first village Scout/Cats and its radius doesn't matter if it's your 1st village. Anyway, here is the radius of a level 3 church. It covers roughly 17x17 with shaped corners:

    [img]http://i32.tinypic.com/6tczvb.png[/img ]


    Also, I think it would be important I mention that there are 2 kinds of churches. One of them (the kind you automatically start with in your first village) can only exist in 1 village, similar to a paladin, and cannot be upgraded. This kind of church has an area of influence with a radius of 6 fields(Level 2 radius wise). The other kind, which you can make in any village, is like this:

    Level 1: 4 fields radius
    Level 2: 6 fields radius
    Level 3: 8 fields radius

    [img]http://i32.tinypic.com/2jb9jy9.jpg[/img ]


    The introduction of the church will alter many players' game play and strategies. Obviously an aggressive strategy where you spread out your starting villages to maximize farming might have to be changed as it will be harder to attack from/defend villages too far from the main village. Also, people aren't going to be able to afford to allocate that much farm space to create church/cat or church/scout villages early on.

    This is where Logical Positioning kicks into place. Clustering villages and over-lapping radiuses are far more important now. You will most likely need to pair villages, going for a Defence/Church village next to an Offense village early on. It could possibly mean that taking a smaller village in a tighter cluster might be more beneficial than spreading out too much to take bigger villages that might be outside the influence of the Church, which will affect Offensive players more than defensive. You will have to think very carefully when and where you noble. Nobling too far out could prove to damage you. You may want to analyze your area carefully before deciding. Have a look at this for example:

    [img]http://i27.tinypic.com/2wn7msn.png[/img ]


    Note: The black circle is another radius. However, it isn't entirely accurate but you get the point; Over-lapping is crucial and will give you an advantage. In the map, you have 5 villages. 2 have churches (level 3). It should be the one in the white square and the one in-between the blue and black circle. As you can see, the over-lapping area is bigger so should you lose either village, you won’t be in a very vulnerable position. Keep this concept going, 5 vills, 2 churches, 10 vills, 4 churches, 15 vills, 6 churches etc etc. I believe the main purpose of this feature is to encourage/increase cluster whoring, making it harder to expand effectively and cause more close range warring.

    With your 1st village and the others, later you may want to noble in similar positioning as the below image. It'll allow you to expand as efficient and effective enough without lowering your strength in both offense and defence by 50%. As you can/will be able to see, you can expand further west and east. Same applies with the north and the south.

    [img]http://i32.tinypic.com/r8fmrn.png[/img ]


    After some thorough discussion, here are some generalized conclusions which should be followed. However, there may be exceptions but here are the rules.

    - Do not build churches in offensive villages. You can stack Defence’s but you can't stack nukes. This will be far more beneficial if you use the HC strategy or have a nuke which consists of a decent number of HC allowing you to shift HC/Support quickly between your villages.

    - It would be more logical to make a small cluster of vills, make the middle 1 the scout with a level 3 church. Should be self explanatory by now, if not read above again if needs be .

    - Scout villages should have level 3 churches. This is generally the rule but an exception of keeping 1 village with the maximum possible scouts would be ideal.

    A problem which people may face is that the village which has the most attention/points will most likely have the most defence. However, thinking about it, this opens more tactical options, for example; mass faking on the starting village which removes troops/attention on the others and makes nobling of the other village’s alot easier. A tactic to counter this would be to spend some time, working on a village build which will make all your villages the same. It'll disguise the village your church(es) are in. I'm currently working on builds for:

    Offensive Village; No Church
    Offensive Village; Nobles
    Defensive Village; No Church
    Defensive Village; Church
    Scout/Cat Village; Church
    Scout Village; No Church
    This includes not only points but calculating troop counts so you have no troop population remaining. This way you are maxing the efficency of your village whilst disguising them so they all have the same points making it impossible/much harder for your opponent to not only identify your church village but what type of village each on is. Only T*F have/will have access to this info so don't get your e-peen up

    To finalize, I'll leave you with an excel image of precise numbers and times of the churches settings to give you a clearer idea of requirements whilst you're reading this.

    [img]http://i26.tinypic.com/105bc4g.png[/img ]


    A thanks to Wizzydizzy, User Not Found, King Bowsa Koopa and 1-2 more for their input/say in this guide during our Skype conversation(s). I also got into contact with a few German server players and extracted some info from their experience. Although they've only played with Churches with Priests, it's the same concept.

    So now, go add this to your tribes forum if you wish, let's increase the quality of world 1 even more than it already is! Thanks for reading, hope you learnt and enjoyed. I certainly did!

  24. #24

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    Thanks, helps me a new player quite abit

  25. #25

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    Is this a distinction part. I smelled something.

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