DeletedUser6695
Guest
the main thing that annoy's me is there were plenty of willing leaders in 404, why not just step down?
DeletedUser
Guest
Mark, I agree wth nearly all of what you say, and my previous contribution was actually more a generalised musing than a response to your previous post (hence the lack of any quotes etc.). I'm sure that if Ruffus had been thinking straight he would have realised that the vast bulk of the 404 'rank and file' were very loyal and would have stood and fought under that tribes name, and therefore he would have passed over the reigns to someone else while he took a break to sort out RL problems. Sadly I'm not sure he was thinking straight, but when you are under stress that happens and I don't blame him - he had to face the fact that something he had invested so much time in had been undermined by a few of the people he thought he could trust.
Now as I wasn't on the council, and have always disliked and not used Skype (just one big gossip fest in my view with nothing that can't be done on a tribe forum, hidden or otherwise), I don't know if there were cracks starting to appear between the leadership earlier. Certainly from my perspective I didn't see any problems with the tribe prior to the sudden meltdown. Indeed, I did think that one of Ruffus' strangths was in dealing in a good way with some of the rampant egos (kids mainly, but not exclusively) that litter TW and will be in any successful tribe. But perhaps I was mistaken on that point?
In any case I don't have a problem with every Bi! member. Apart from anything else tribe membership is often as much to do with where you start geographically as with any skill level over a certain threashold, and facing a good opponent is what makes this game better than a sim city after all. But I certainly do have a problem with those who couldn't leave 404 fast enough when the first hint of any problem arose, because that shows a basic lack of loyalty and of respect for fellow tribemates who hadn't in the past hesitated in giving them any support that was asked of them. The longer term problem of course is that while I wouldn't want to be in the same tribe again with some of those back-stabbers (however successful that tribe was - and short-term Bi! almost certainly will be), as these are the type of player to reinvent themselves under different names in different worlds to hide this sort of reputation that would otherwise surround them like a bad smell it can't, I guess, be guarenteed...
Del.
Now as I wasn't on the council, and have always disliked and not used Skype (just one big gossip fest in my view with nothing that can't be done on a tribe forum, hidden or otherwise), I don't know if there were cracks starting to appear between the leadership earlier. Certainly from my perspective I didn't see any problems with the tribe prior to the sudden meltdown. Indeed, I did think that one of Ruffus' strangths was in dealing in a good way with some of the rampant egos (kids mainly, but not exclusively) that litter TW and will be in any successful tribe. But perhaps I was mistaken on that point?
In any case I don't have a problem with every Bi! member. Apart from anything else tribe membership is often as much to do with where you start geographically as with any skill level over a certain threashold, and facing a good opponent is what makes this game better than a sim city after all. But I certainly do have a problem with those who couldn't leave 404 fast enough when the first hint of any problem arose, because that shows a basic lack of loyalty and of respect for fellow tribemates who hadn't in the past hesitated in giving them any support that was asked of them. The longer term problem of course is that while I wouldn't want to be in the same tribe again with some of those back-stabbers (however successful that tribe was - and short-term Bi! almost certainly will be), as these are the type of player to reinvent themselves under different names in different worlds to hide this sort of reputation that would otherwise surround them like a bad smell it can't, I guess, be guarenteed...
Del.
DeletedUser857
Guest
I can't defend Ruffus, I gave him the option to hand over the reigns to me (who has lead a fair few tribes) but he ignored me and disbanded anyway :/
DeletedUser
Guest
A good leader knows when to stand down and allow effective leadership to take over. Its not weakness, its intelligent. Disbanding should only occur when the tribe is about to collapse from war. Otherwise fight.
On w30 I didn't disband the tribe despite losing 2/3 of my tribemembers (due to inactivity), cause what few that remained decided to stick to the end, at least, until I ordered them to leave and save themselves. Still... it was fun.
DeletedUser
Guest
None of us can or should we all have rl, we all have our own problems. What ruffus did was by far worse than mggege.
DeletedUser7217
Guest
Talon leading a tribe is very hard especially the one that's ranked top and when you IRL issues and your best players are leaving to a tribe they believe is better because they don't want to get attacked by anyone makes the job impossible and the stress would be unbairable but on the other hand John (Ruffus) should have been more intelligent and at least handed the reigns to someone else who could have lead the tribe as far as possible in the war with Bi! In my opinion now nobody will go to war with Bi! and if they do they won't be able to put up a good fight, maybe vital and =FATE= work together but even then I doubt it
DeletedUser
Guest
Lol at mindgames.
Also, odd how you have the ability to be on skype ALL THE TIME yet don't have the time for TW...
No, they left because you are a terrible leader.
And if real life was such a problem, you should of passed leadership onto some capable, instead of pissing blood everywhere. :3
*clakson noise*
Wrong answer! The correct answer was..."I messed up 2 tribes on 2 worlds because I'm an incompetent leader"
Yes.
If by mindgames you mean, Smile? sending scout fakes and a Mggege co player spamming your forum, then yeah....excellent mind games.... :icon_rolleyes:
Thank god. :lol:
DeletedUser
Guest
I know the stresses of leading a top ranked tribe and dealing with real life catastrophes it isn't an excuse to act in such a manner. I had stuff go wrong in my life that I wish no one else has to go through, I didn't disband the tribe then I stepped aside and gave the leadership to someone else like any sensible person. As said before what he did was worse than any spy.
DeletedUser1410
Guest
Worse than a spy, I don't think so.
Did Bi! win, no, they just took members from 404.
And 404 was My tribe I started it and regardless of what you think, 404 was going down hill anyway
to many peeps doing not alot, even with help, and to give someone else the leadership of 404, Ha, so go on then guys make your own tribe and keep it at the top, go on? See its easy complaining after the fact but its all nice and easy now that some of you are in BI!.
If its that easy
leave Bi then start a war with them
and Put your money were your mouth is.
I log in now and then to see whats going on
but most of you are all mouth and could run a tribe like 404 otherwise you would be, its as simple as that.
And just because I'm signed into skype doesn't mean I'm at the Computer,
So complain all you want.
But prove to me that you can do a better job and start your own tribe or shut up
Did Bi! win, no, they just took members from 404.
And 404 was My tribe I started it and regardless of what you think, 404 was going down hill anyway
to many peeps doing not alot, even with help, and to give someone else the leadership of 404, Ha, so go on then guys make your own tribe and keep it at the top, go on? See its easy complaining after the fact but its all nice and easy now that some of you are in BI!.
If its that easy
leave Bi then start a war with them
and Put your money were your mouth is.
I log in now and then to see whats going on
but most of you are all mouth and could run a tribe like 404 otherwise you would be, its as simple as that.
And just because I'm signed into skype doesn't mean I'm at the Computer,
So complain all you want.
But prove to me that you can do a better job and start your own tribe or shut up
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DeletedUser
Guest
They declared on 404, their actions destroyed 404. So yes, Bi! won.
Because of your lack of leadership
*cough* hypocrite*cough*
Why? I'm finally in a tribe with a good leader :icon_biggrin:
I, unlike you, know that I cannot run a tribe sucsessfully, so in a way, I've already done a better job than you, because I haven't screwed people over by trying :icon_wink:
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DeletedUser
Guest
think were all in agreement 404 was a messy down hill tribe that fell apart as soon as any significant problem came along.... that problem being bi... why? simple answer we were better, and ruffus knew it, as he already stated it was on its way to falling anyway.
as for you ruffus, shame on you, fact is you sold out your tribe - some yes sold you out this is a players choice and part of the game players change tribes, however as a leader you dont have this choice you are to serve your tribe - if 404 was full of wasters thats your fault you recruited them * you coulda dismissed them, you just sold the entire tribe out including the loyal and trusting with faith in you! ....and then you have the nerve to blame the tribe...
as for you ruffus, shame on you, fact is you sold out your tribe - some yes sold you out this is a players choice and part of the game players change tribes, however as a leader you dont have this choice you are to serve your tribe - if 404 was full of wasters thats your fault you recruited them * you coulda dismissed them, you just sold the entire tribe out including the loyal and trusting with faith in you! ....and then you have the nerve to blame the tribe...
DeletedUser7217
Guest
Great, mate, you joined Bi! it just meant you are scared of Bi! because you don't want to have a go, noone does, and now nobody will and until someone does Bi! will dominate and then it will be too late, it is sad to see that people are dissing Ruffus, if he was so bad how come he managed to make a tribe that went to the Top. If I was part of a tribe in the top 5, I would give it a try, and nobody will, Bi! will keep recruiting the top 40 and nobody will be able to take them on,
Congratulations Bi! You have dominated this World,
NYK
Congratulations Bi! You have dominated this World,
NYK
DeletedUser
Guest
How can you say such rubbish, look at the bigger picture 404 was the 2nd most successful tribe in the world to date and held a top spot from pretty much the start of this world & in many eyes it was the most successful tribe. I do not believe another Duke has put as much effort or time in to a tribe in my experience of playing this game.
You spent so much time behind the leader of 404 and trusted him to organize support for you when required however now he finds himself down rather that help you throw in a kick or two, its exactly this reason Ruffus decided to quit. Loyalty became an issue and he did not know who he could trust, I'm glad you have shown us the colours of your underwear!
DeletedUser
Guest
If he couldn't handle the pressure, maybe someone who could should of led the tribe
Oh, and don't question my loyalty, I blew all my offensive on an op that had barely any gain for me...
DeletedUser
Guest
Firstly I never said he could not handle the pressure, I said that he no longer trusted the people around him hense the reason to quit. Pressure was never an issue - Loyalty was!
You left the tribe less than an hour after Mggege and from what I seen off the skype chat you were never looking to stand your ground, you took the first taxi out of town and are now here looking to some how convince your new tribe that your loyal. Ha - it could not be more transparent.
And OK yeah I too moved, however I had already been given a heads up of what was to come.
DeletedUser
Guest
Congrats to Adellion on your pnp.
My congrats also go out to Bi! on their successful campaign against 404 Tribe not Found.
I had no inkling that Ruffus has / had some RL issues to contend with this past while and I wish both him and his family all the best in his future endeavours along with his current situations.
As for the run of events leading to this UK4 top tribes downfall … well it certainly seems that there is many a speculation out there, and you know … some of it is untrue.
I am happy to give my opinions on the subject, but please … I have little intention of getting into a tit for tat argument about who said / did what.
The easiest way to look at it is from a factual viewpoint, and we can easily prove the following :
There was betrayal, Not by one or two members but by a considerable chunk of 404’s members, did it start on that day ? ? ? … I doubt it very much but that’s just my opinion.
There was incompetence, the stupidity that flowed that fateful day from some was overpowering in the wake of receiving some 14 attacks … panic sets in, simple instructions are again too difficult to comprehend. May I remind you that this was not the first time of such incompetence. I have no doubt for some that this trend shall continue, there is certainly no substitute for some knowledge and a calm head at pressured times, if only the few could listen.
There was then the options. Retaliate / not … Some new Bi! members thought it would be best to turn turtle in the wake of such events … with council like that who needs enemies?
I believe the betrayal’s, with the pro-longed incompetence and the advisory of lets turn turtle … (rofl) … I can clearly see why Ruffus would feel it is better to disband a tribe that is already imploding at a remarkably fast pace.
If you blame me for its downfall, more full you … I just escaped before the final call was announced …
FACTUAL PART OVER
So where do we go now?
Well UK4 is now fully unbalanced. The top tribe has close ties with the family of the 3rd ranked tribe TEA. That equates to a total percentage control of over 25% throughout the TOP 20 TRIBES.
Can that balance be restored or has Bi! effectively won UK4 in a remarkably quick time?
Who knows … from here the battle shall continue. The odds are most certainly against, but its ok … We’ve got a few troops left and we’ll create more. The Dog still has fight.
In reply to a few comments:
I agree Daku, is was very sad. However I would disagree with the solid leadership. From the start Ruffus has made it clear he was in total control. I can live with that but during the majority of my tenure (Sweetdeath20 can confirm) the positions of Ruffus and myself where very much opposites.
It is true this is in fact a game and some people get their kicks in different ways. Some enjoy the art of deceit and mistrust. Others value the qualities of honour and comradeship … It has been found that 404 was riddled with mis-trust and deceit from the top down – A trait that I feel could possibly have been baptised.
It was evident that there was little trust between Ruffus and myself. Or Ruffus and any other council member for that matter – may I ask where your account was at this fateful time? The Rev was also most annoyed at the close proximity wishing to join up rather than fight. Although I’ll admit the deal breaker for me was Ruffus going offline during our heated discussion.
As previously stated … I do hope your RL issues are resolved for the better as soon as can be.
Depending on how you view things (statistically) Bi! have always had the higher average points than 404 and therefore IMHO the makings of a better tribe. That’s not to say 404 was bad tribe. 404 was a great tribe it had the makings of being really good. I would however argue that your efforts where concentrated on your attempt to hold rank 1 by bringing new tribes into the fold rather than concentrating on our current membership and continued strengthening through a war effort, instead our diplomatic position changed from one day to the next that it is of little surprise that our membership became strained.
As for people loosing villa’s … that’s a fact of life. Villa’s will be both lost and gained, it’s a war game after all. You roll the dice you take your chances. I do believe it was only I that lost a villa to TEA not Bi! - depending on what side of the diplomacy you’re sitting on.
I’ll disagree with. I do think Bi! won. Although I’d say that even Bi! would prefer the competition to have still existed. The lack of rivalry and therefore interest in the world will see it slowly and painlessly die out. Most likely quicker than later … but here’s hoping someone bites back.
Its weird how things turn out. It is a game and we learn from experience. It’s called tribal wars … you are only as strong as your weakest link.
I would argue that there was little to no council within 404. I can say for certain that I had the title of being there … but for that privilege my words went unheard / discarded.
Mggege was indeed a hurtful crime. That I suspected would happen and had informed Ruffus as such. His way of solving that issue was getting him to eat all the dead 404 accounts to make him bigger and better. Wonderful … eggs basket and now on face.
Very true, there is a number of accounts that where passed to new owners rather than being internal’d an approach that has led to failure – and I’ll admit … My view is purely on the loyalty, working hard for something / getting a reward for something. Totally different compared to instead of starting from scratch you get a brand new spanking brilliant account to help you along with.
I’ve touched on this already. Yes trust – there was none, or more importantly it had become apparent that there was none. The tribe was made up of previous mini tribes all combining. They’ve each in turn basically reformed – again I’d say it’s a trust issue.
I get the impression that you think the council had a large say in the things that went on in 404, I’d disagree.
The question was posed to those online of what to do. It took 7 minutes to establish that everything coming from Smile? was a scout. I spent a further 20 minutes trying to explain to everyone not to move support but to use this as a training exercise – the next 45mins to an hour was attempting to calm down those that had gone panic stricken … for me it was too much to bare. I agree this was my downfall. While this was going on we also where taking the viewpoints of those members around us. You would be surprised at how evident it was that members where reluctant to return the fight.
There is a very big question over the future of the UK4 … Bi! are out in front by a long way. The question is if its worth the RL effort in attempting to make an impact or is it truly a lost cause ….
Rev
My congrats also go out to Bi! on their successful campaign against 404 Tribe not Found.
I had no inkling that Ruffus has / had some RL issues to contend with this past while and I wish both him and his family all the best in his future endeavours along with his current situations.
As for the run of events leading to this UK4 top tribes downfall … well it certainly seems that there is many a speculation out there, and you know … some of it is untrue
.I am happy to give my opinions on the subject, but please … I have little intention of getting into a tit for tat argument about who said / did what.
The easiest way to look at it is from a factual viewpoint, and we can easily prove the following :
There was betrayal, Not by one or two members but by a considerable chunk of 404’s members, did it start on that day ? ? ? … I doubt it very much but that’s just my opinion.
There was incompetence, the stupidity that flowed that fateful day from some was overpowering in the wake of receiving some 14 attacks … panic sets in, simple instructions are again too difficult to comprehend. May I remind you that this was not the first time of such incompetence. I have no doubt for some that this trend shall continue, there is certainly no substitute for some knowledge and a calm head at pressured times, if only the few could listen.
There was then the options. Retaliate / not … Some new Bi! members thought it would be best to turn turtle in the wake of such events … with council like that who needs enemies?
I believe the betrayal’s, with the pro-longed incompetence and the advisory of lets turn turtle … (rofl) … I can clearly see why Ruffus would feel it is better to disband a tribe that is already imploding at a remarkably fast pace.
If you blame me for its downfall, more full you … I just escaped before the final call was announced …
FACTUAL PART OVER
So where do we go now?
Well UK4 is now fully unbalanced. The top tribe has close ties with the family of the 3rd ranked tribe TEA. That equates to a total percentage control of over 25% throughout the TOP 20 TRIBES.
Can that balance be restored or has Bi! effectively won UK4 in a remarkably quick time?
Who knows … from here the battle shall continue. The odds are most certainly against, but its ok … We’ve got a few troops left and we’ll create more. The Dog still has fight.
In reply to a few comments:
I agree Daku, is was very sad. However I would disagree with the solid leadership. From the start Ruffus has made it clear he was in total control. I can live with that but during the majority of my tenure (Sweetdeath20 can confirm) the positions of Ruffus and myself where very much opposites.
It is true this is in fact a game and some people get their kicks in different ways. Some enjoy the art of deceit and mistrust. Others value the qualities of honour and comradeship … It has been found that 404 was riddled with mis-trust and deceit from the top down – A trait that I feel could possibly have been baptised.
It was evident that there was little trust between Ruffus and myself. Or Ruffus and any other council member for that matter – may I ask where your account was at this fateful time? The Rev was also most annoyed at the close proximity wishing to join up rather than fight. Although I’ll admit the deal breaker for me was Ruffus going offline during our heated discussion.
As previously stated … I do hope your RL issues are resolved for the better as soon as can be.
Depending on how you view things (statistically) Bi! have always had the higher average points than 404 and therefore IMHO the makings of a better tribe. That’s not to say 404 was bad tribe. 404 was a great tribe it had the makings of being really good. I would however argue that your efforts where concentrated on your attempt to hold rank 1 by bringing new tribes into the fold rather than concentrating on our current membership and continued strengthening through a war effort, instead our diplomatic position changed from one day to the next that it is of little surprise that our membership became strained.
As for people loosing villa’s … that’s a fact of life. Villa’s will be both lost and gained, it’s a war game after all. You roll the dice you take your chances. I do believe it was only I that lost a villa to TEA not Bi! - depending on what side of the diplomacy you’re sitting on.
I’ll disagree with. I do think Bi! won. Although I’d say that even Bi! would prefer the competition to have still existed. The lack of rivalry and therefore interest in the world will see it slowly and painlessly die out. Most likely quicker than later … but here’s hoping someone bites back.
Its weird how things turn out. It is a game and we learn from experience. It’s called tribal wars … you are only as strong as your weakest link.
I would argue that there was little to no council within 404. I can say for certain that I had the title of being there … but for that privilege my words went unheard / discarded.
Mggege was indeed a hurtful crime. That I suspected would happen and had informed Ruffus as such. His way of solving that issue was getting him to eat all the dead 404 accounts to make him bigger and better. Wonderful … eggs basket and now on face.
Very true, there is a number of accounts that where passed to new owners rather than being internal’d an approach that has led to failure – and I’ll admit … My view is purely on the loyalty, working hard for something / getting a reward for something. Totally different compared to instead of starting from scratch you get a brand new spanking brilliant account to help you along with.
I’ve touched on this already. Yes trust – there was none, or more importantly it had become apparent that there was none. The tribe was made up of previous mini tribes all combining. They’ve each in turn basically reformed – again I’d say it’s a trust issue.
I get the impression that you think the council had a large say in the things that went on in 404, I’d disagree.
The question was posed to those online of what to do. It took 7 minutes to establish that everything coming from Smile? was a scout. I spent a further 20 minutes trying to explain to everyone not to move support but to use this as a training exercise – the next 45mins to an hour was attempting to calm down those that had gone panic stricken … for me it was too much to bare. I agree this was my downfall. While this was going on we also where taking the viewpoints of those members around us. You would be surprised at how evident it was that members where reluctant to return the fight.
There is a very big question over the future of the UK4 … Bi! are out in front by a long way. The question is if its worth the RL effort in attempting to make an impact or is it truly a lost cause ….
Rev
DeletedUser7217
Guest
Maybe not for the top tribe in the World but maybe top in K's, wars will still go on, but whoever Bi! wants to kill, they will own
DeletedUser
Guest
I left because he said he was going to disband the tribe :icon_biggrin:
I was loyal up until he disbanded the tribe because of a little forum spam and few fakes
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DeletedUser
Guest
Nice Post Rev.
DeletedUser
Guest
I left because he said he was going to disband the tribe :icon_biggrin:
I was loyal up until he disbanded the tribe because of a little forum spam and few fakes
Well I guess people are just going to have to TRUST you on that one!:lol:
