A United Ireland? Backed by PAISLEY!?

DeletedUser

Guest
I hope you're not referring to the whole of Northern Ireland BECAUSE you are young and were brought up on the education of the UK. All you've ever known IN Northern ireland is English rule, therefore how can you make an informed decision on why you did this and that. I'm not saying you've been brainwashed to believe anything, but the phrase "The winner writes the history books" comes to mind. Well considering the education system of Northern Ireland involves input from Ireland...

The point is the UK have treated Ireland AND Scotland appallingly in the past, and to some extent we still do now in terms of Money and borrowing. I hope you have been taught the story of the great potato famine and the part that the UK had to play in the hundred of thousand of deaths in Ireland. I do not blame Ireland at all for wanting to have independence, after all what did we really do for them? Nothing, we treated them as cheap Labour. And the USA had infighting amont the races. Those were not times of human rights.

Although now, in today's climate I would love to have Ireland become part of the United Kingdom again. It is an option now because of new human rights legislation etc, and if you put a bit of money into the economy you are going to see it come back out. That is true of any economy. Except if that money is just allocated and pumped in, you need to ensure that you're investing in the right areas.

We were the world power - we had provided for our citizens. To go and bite the hand that feeds you?

*we as in people from Northern Ireland were provided (Those of you that were the correct religion ) What we produced in the south was exported to the UK durning the famine. In those times Ireland was a whole, there was no Northern Ireland and the ROI. GB had a place in the world to hold, but alas they did attempt to get supplies, but they were inefficient and extremely late.

The UK had just emerged from The Great War, so yeah maybe everyone felt the pinch? Of course, you had been intending to fight us with German weapons too.

In WW1. 350,000 Irishmen volunteered for service during WW1 in addition to the 50,000 Irishmen already serving in the regular army and reserve at the outbreak of the war. Most of the southern Irish Catholics. Not including the thousands of IVF still trying to fight the British? Of course they should have stepped up and fought, it was for their security too.

Had your government, the one you elected, not got you into that mess then you would not be moaning about it.
Yes our government and banks got it wrong .... Im sure there not the first our the last that will ....:icon_eek:
Maybe i wrong :icon_redface: If that's a reference to the UK, atleast we are dealing with it.

Not going to comment on it all but Ireland remain part of the UK?

The country who exploited us? Caused a famine and caused people to leave for a better life because of a lack of food while the british exported our crops? I've answered that amongst the several above points.

Meow.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I hope you're not referring to the whole of Northern Ireland BECAUSE you are young and were brought up on the education of the UK. All you've ever known IN Northern ireland is English rule, therefore how can you make an informed decision on why you did this and that. I'm not saying you've been brainwashed to believe anything, but the phrase "The winner writes the history books" comes to mind.

Of course the same can be said of those educated in Ireland, I'm sure that the history lessons there aren't exactly full of praises for the British.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
The fungus Phytophthora infestans caused the food shortags, which affected potatos which were the main crop (something like 60%).
 

DeletedUser6695

Guest
Yes but as i pointed out earlier, Ireland should never in theory have been reliant on the potato crop.

We produced sufficient other food sources but Britain decided to export them
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Yes, it's called trade. At that time, why fix something that isn't broken?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Yes, it's called trade. At that time, why fix something that isn't broken?
Not quite sure what you mean by this. The trade resulted in thousands of peasants dying so a few wealthy Irishman and the British treasury profitted. I'd say that was pretty broken.
 

DeletedUser613

Guest
That's certainly not what I have learned. But alas, as a point I shall say the 'Easter Rising' or one of the several Home Rule attempts. We were the world power - we had provided for our citizens. To go and bite the hand that feeds you?

Nothern Ireland, the area of Ireland that had choosen to stay part of the UK. We were loyal and we recognised how life would be better as part of the UK. The UK had just emerged from The Great War, so yeah maybe everyone felt the pinch? Of course, you had been intending to fight us with German weapons too.

Had your government, the one you elected, not got you into that mess then you would not be moaning about it.

Bite the hand that feeds you? or the hand that imposes itself on you when you were capable of feeding yourself.
Home Rule attempts? Yes but considering they were being put forward to a british government and getting thrown back it wasn't exactly us deciding.

The people didn't decide it ultimately, many people were unhappy about the division of Ireland.
Lol, yeah everyone thought that life would be better with the UK which is why the troubles happened.
Perhaps people wouldn't be so annoyed if when they stage a protest they don't get shot while unarmed, bloody sunday ring a bell?
John (Jackie) Duddy (17). Shot in the chest in the car park of Rossville flats. Four witnesses stated Duddy was unarmed and running away from the paratroopers when he was killed. Three of them saw a soldier take deliberate aim at the youth as he ran. He is the uncle of the Irish boxer John Duddy.[28]
Belt worn by Patrick Doherty. The notch was made by the bullet that killed him.[29]

Mural by Bogside Artists depicting all who were killed by the British Army on the day

Patrick Joseph Doherty (31). Shot from behind while attempting to crawl to safety in the forecourt of Rossville flats. Doherty was the subject of a series of photographs, taken before and after he died by French journalist Gilles Peress. Despite testimony from "Soldier F" that he had fired at a man holding and firing a pistol, Widgery acknowledged that the photographs showed Doherty was unarmed, and that forensic tests on his hands for gunshot residue proved negative.[28][30]
Bernard McGuigan (41). Shot in the back of the head when he went to help Patrick Doherty. He had been waving a white handkerchief at the soldiers to indicate his peaceful intentions.[4]
Hugh Pious Gilmour (17). Shot through his right elbow, the bullet then entering his chest as he ran from the paratroopers on Rossville Street.[28] Widgery acknowledged that a photograph taken seconds after Gilmour was hit corroborated witness reports that he was unarmed, and that tests for gunshot residue were negative.[4]
Kevin McElhinney (17). Shot from behind while attempting to crawl to safety at the front entrance of the Rossville Flats. Two witnesses stated McElhinney was unarmed.[28]
Michael Gerald Kelly (17). Shot in the stomach while standing near the rubble barricade in front of Rossville Flats. Widgery accepted that Kelly was unarmed.[28]
John Pius Young (17). Shot in the head while standing at the rubble barricade. Two witnesses stated Young was unarmed.[28]
William Noel Nash (19). Shot in the chest near the barricade. Witnesses stated Nash was unarmed and going to the aid of another when killed.[28]
Michael M. McDaid (20). Shot in the face at the barricade as he was walking away from the paratroopers. The trajectory of the bullet indicated he could have been killed by soldiers positioned on the Derry Walls.[28]
James Joseph Wray (22). Wounded then shot again at close range while lying on the ground. Witnesses who were not called to the Widgery Tribunal stated that Wray was calling out to say that he could not move his legs before he was shot the second time.[28]
Gerald Donaghy (17). Shot in the stomach while attempting to run to safety between Glenfada Park and Abbey Park. Donaghy was brought to a nearby house by bystanders where he was examined by a doctor. His pockets were turned out in an effort to identify him. A later police photograph of Donaghy's corpse showed nail bombs in his pockets. Neither those who searched his pockets in the house nor the British army medical officer (Soldier 138) who pronounced his death shortly afterwards say they saw any bombs. Donaghy had been a member of Fianna Éireann, an IRA-linked Republican youth movement.[28] Paddy Ward, a police informer[31] who gave evidence at the Saville Inquiry, claimed that he had given two nail bombs to Donaghy several hours before he was shot dead.[32]
Gerald (James) McKinney (34). Shot just after Gerald Donaghy. Witnesses stated that McKinney had been running behind Donaghy, and he stopped and held up his arms, shouting "Don't shoot! Don't shoot!", when he saw Donaghy fall. He was then shot in the chest.[28]
William Anthony McKinney (27). Shot from behind as he attempted to aid Gerald McKinney (no relation). He had left cover to try to help Gerald.[28]
John Johnston (59). Shot in the leg and left shoulder on William Street 15 minutes before the rest of the shooting started.[28][33] Johnston was not on the march, but on his way to visit a friend in Glenfada Park.[33] He died 4½ months later; his death has been attributed to the injuries he received on the day. He was the only one not to die immediately or soon after being shot.[28]
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Bite the hand that feeds you? or the hand that imposes itself on you when you were capable of feeding yourself.
Home Rule attempts? Yes but considering they were being put forward to a british government and getting thrown back it wasn't exactly us deciding.

The people didn't decide it ultimately, many people were unhappy about the division of Ireland.
Lol, yeah everyone thought that life would be better with the UK which is why the troubles happened.
Perhaps people wouldn't be so annoyed if when they stage a protest they don't get shot while unarmed, bloody sunday ring a bell?
John (Jackie) Duddy (17). Shot in the chest in the car park of Rossville flats. Four witnesses stated Duddy was unarmed and running away from the paratroopers when he was killed. Three of them saw a soldier take deliberate aim at the youth as he ran. He is the uncle of the Irish boxer John Duddy.[28]
Belt worn by Patrick Doherty. The notch was made by the bullet that killed him.[29]

Mural by Bogside Artists depicting all who were killed by the British Army on the day

Patrick Joseph Doherty (31). Shot from behind while attempting to crawl to safety in the forecourt of Rossville flats. Doherty was the subject of a series of photographs, taken before and after he died by French journalist Gilles Peress. Despite testimony from "Soldier F" that he had fired at a man holding and firing a pistol, Widgery acknowledged that the photographs showed Doherty was unarmed, and that forensic tests on his hands for gunshot residue proved negative.[28][30]
Bernard McGuigan (41). Shot in the back of the head when he went to help Patrick Doherty. He had been waving a white handkerchief at the soldiers to indicate his peaceful intentions.[4]
Hugh Pious Gilmour (17). Shot through his right elbow, the bullet then entering his chest as he ran from the paratroopers on Rossville Street.[28] Widgery acknowledged that a photograph taken seconds after Gilmour was hit corroborated witness reports that he was unarmed, and that tests for gunshot residue were negative.[4]
Kevin McElhinney (17). Shot from behind while attempting to crawl to safety at the front entrance of the Rossville Flats. Two witnesses stated McElhinney was unarmed.[28]
Michael Gerald Kelly (17). Shot in the stomach while standing near the rubble barricade in front of Rossville Flats. Widgery accepted that Kelly was unarmed.[28]
John Pius Young (17). Shot in the head while standing at the rubble barricade. Two witnesses stated Young was unarmed.[28]
William Noel Nash (19). Shot in the chest near the barricade. Witnesses stated Nash was unarmed and going to the aid of another when killed.[28]
Michael M. McDaid (20). Shot in the face at the barricade as he was walking away from the paratroopers. The trajectory of the bullet indicated he could have been killed by soldiers positioned on the Derry Walls.[28]
James Joseph Wray (22). Wounded then shot again at close range while lying on the ground. Witnesses who were not called to the Widgery Tribunal stated that Wray was calling out to say that he could not move his legs before he was shot the second time.[28]
Gerald Donaghy (17). Shot in the stomach while attempting to run to safety between Glenfada Park and Abbey Park. Donaghy was brought to a nearby house by bystanders where he was examined by a doctor. His pockets were turned out in an effort to identify him. A later police photograph of Donaghy's corpse showed nail bombs in his pockets. Neither those who searched his pockets in the house nor the British army medical officer (Soldier 138) who pronounced his death shortly afterwards say they saw any bombs. Donaghy had been a member of Fianna Éireann, an IRA-linked Republican youth movement.[28] Paddy Ward, a police informer[31] who gave evidence at the Saville Inquiry, claimed that he had given two nail bombs to Donaghy several hours before he was shot dead.[32]
Gerald (James) McKinney (34). Shot just after Gerald Donaghy. Witnesses stated that McKinney had been running behind Donaghy, and he stopped and held up his arms, shouting "Don't shoot! Don't shoot!", when he saw Donaghy fall. He was then shot in the chest.[28]
William Anthony McKinney (27). Shot from behind as he attempted to aid Gerald McKinney (no relation). He had left cover to try to help Gerald.[28]
John Johnston (59). Shot in the leg and left shoulder on William Street 15 minutes before the rest of the shooting started.[28][33] Johnston was not on the march, but on his way to visit a friend in Glenfada Park.[33] He died 4½ months later; his death has been attributed to the injuries he received on the day. He was the only one not to die immediately or soon after being shot.[28]

Let's name everyone that was killed by the IRA.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I don't have time to explain it all to you but .

This is a list of all terrorism groups in Ireland (N Ireland )

LVF, IRA ,CIRA, OV, RHD .

This is a list of all legitimate armies in Ireland and N Ireland

The British and the Irish Army

By you comparing what some members of the British Army did ( which the British government has apologised for) and what the IRA have done is a insult to any member of the British Army .

Please read up your history books before posting things you know nothing about .
 

DeletedUser613

Guest
Oh, I know all about it.
Im not advocating the IRA and what they did, BUT the British army were meant to be a trained army compared to a group of terrorists. Bloody Sunday showed them shooting unarmed civilians at a "not that violent" protest.
And, by the way for years this was attempted to be covered up so it's not as if the apologies were forthcoming.
All I'm saying is responding to metallics comment of don't bite the hand that feeds you and say these are things that can only rile up and deeply anger the population. And also lol'ing about the way he thinks he speaks for the people of Northern Ireland
 

DeletedUser

Guest
This is a list of all terrorism groups in Ireland (N Ireland )

LVF, IRA ,CIRA, OV, RHD
There were/are loads more.

By you comparing what some members of the British Army did ( which the British government has apologised for) and what the IRA have done is a insult to any member of the British Army .
Not really. Many acts of terror were committed by serving members of the British Army. He wasn't saying "all soldiers are terrorists". The comparison was entirely propper.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Oh, I know all about it.
Im not advocating the IRA and what they did, BUT the British army were meant to be a trained army compared to a group of terrorists. Bloody Sunday showed them shooting unarmed civilians at a "not that violent" protest.
And, by the way for years this was attempted to be covered up so it's not as if the apologies were forthcoming.
All I'm saying is responding to metallics comment of don't bite the hand that feeds you and say these are things that can only rile up and deeply anger the population. And also lol'ing about the way he thinks he speaks for the people of Northern Ireland

It seems to be a problem with armies occupying other countries as "peace keeping" forces. If you are at risk of being attacked at any time and you've seen your friends die around you then you aren't going to feel too forgiving towards the locals, and will interpret even innocent actions as threats.

The Americans in Vietnam and the coalition forces in Afghanistan have these problems with hitting innocents and being portrayed as the bad guys.

The terrorists such as the IRA would have wanted a Bloody Sundayesque event to occur as it would turn people against Britain who as an army had to aim for the moral highground compared to terrorists who could strike innocents down whereveer they wanted
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Ivan Cooper - Founder of the SDLP, a leading member of the Northern Ireland Civil Rights Movement and organiser of the infamous civil rights and anti-internment march said the night of Bloody Sunday.

"I just want to say this to the British Government... You know what you've just done, don't you? You've destroyed the civil rights movement, and you've given the IRA the biggest victory it will ever have. All over this city tonight, young men... boys will be joining the IRA, and you will reap a whirlwind."

How right he was.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Ivan Cooper - Founder of the SDLP, a leading member of the Northern Ireland Civil Rights Movement and organiser of the infamous civil rights and anti-internment march said the night of Bloody Sunday.

"I just want to say this to the British Government... You know what you've just done, don't you? You've destroyed the civil rights movement, and you've given the IRA the biggest victory it will ever have. All over this city tonight, young men... boys will be joining the IRA, and you will reap a whirlwind."

How right he was.

Yes. Someone should save us from the massive army that is the IRA. Oh wait nevermind. After they sent the SAS into Ireland it was game over for the IRA.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Ivan Cooper - Founder of the SDLP, a leading member of the Northern Ireland Civil Rights Movement and organiser of the infamous civil rights and anti-internment march said the night of Bloody Sunday.

"I just want to say this to the British Government... You know what you've just done, don't you? You've destroyed the civil rights movement, and you've given the IRA the biggest victory it will ever have. All over this city tonight, young men... boys will be joining the IRA, and you will reap a whirlwind."

How right he was.
I've not heard that quote before. I don't think the government planned or wanted the massacre, but that aside, I'm sure he was right.
 

DeletedUser6695

Guest
Yes. Someone should save us from the massive army that is the IRA. Oh wait nevermind. After they sent the SAS into Ireland it was game over for the IRA.



The ira were still functional until a few years ago... And the SAS in Ireland ? Pfft
 
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DeletedUser613

Guest
Yes. Someone should save us from the massive army that is the IRA. Oh wait nevermind. After they sent the SAS into Ireland it was game over for the IRA.

Clearly you do not understand the mass problems they actually caused, you make it sound like they were insignificant, when they basically shaped the last 40 years of violence in northern ireland.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Clearly you do not understand the mass problems they actually caused, you make it sound like they were insignificant, when they basically shaped the last 40 years of violence in northern ireland.

The SAS? I thought it was the parachute regiment that started it off and the army that continued it?

Although I don't know a whole lot on the subject, this thread made me do a bit of research on Bloody sunday though. Tragedy :icon_cry:
 
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