Can I get a second opinion please (Regarding 48 Hour Tribe Support ban)

Discussion in 'Questions' started by Sausage95, May 17, 2018.

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  1. Sausage95

    Sausage95 New Member

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    Hi all,

    I'm just writing this post to get a second opinion on an issue I've just faced... It'll be a little wordy, but would really appreciate peoples thoughts on this, as the support team (Well one individual who'll probably close this post) has been very unhelpful and not provided me with an answer, he just keeps closing my support tickets with no facts.

    Yesterday as some point, I faced an error in the game mechanics, a glitch so to speak – Where the rules were bent unintentionally, causing determent to my account. I will outline the issue below...

    My in-game name on W37 is ‘Sausage95’, and I was attacking a player known by ‘ITzJohn’ – This player had recently moved tribes, so I was taking advantage of the rule on this world - 'No outside support, all support withdrawn on leaving tribe, player must be in tribe 48 hours before sending support'.

    The tribe that ‘ITzJohn’ had joined is known as ‘DAFT’ – According to tribal wars they formed on 15/05/18 at 12:08pm, suggesting that nobody in this tribe could send support until at least the 17/05/18 at 12:08pm. However somehow, support managed to get into this players village early – Seemingly through a loophole of sorts.

    After speaking to the support team, they tried to play this down saying no glitch incurred; stating that support was in the village from the beginning, which I disputed as I had been hitting this player all day during 16/05/18. It also goes against what the support team member said, where he was implying that because a lot of the same players moved from TEMPLR into the new tribe DAFT, that this support ban would be lifted as far as the system was concerned. Again, I disputed this as the stats showed many players who had never been in the same tribe as ‘ITzJohn’ before had supported him...

    Report showing village was clear in the night of 16th May - https://uk37.tribalwars.co.uk/public_report/8046ac6fd4d1fb8ac8bd360d182b5e06

    Report showing failed attack, few hours after the attack above (Before support ban lift) - https://uk37.tribalwars.co.uk/public_report/407deb444eb5d9cd092c905379813283

    Report showing troops in 2nd villa (Showing that this players defence wouldn't of been strong enough to destory my army) - https://uk37.tribalwars.co.uk/public_report/71f3b97c8910f9daf0acfa48b31efc22

    Can someone please explain to me how this tribe could have supported this player... It's a total farce.

    Thanks,

    Jack
     
  2. PeterDGreat1

    PeterDGreat1 Member

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    Since you asked for an opinion Jack here it is.

    A) Whatever else might or might not happened, the mod team are not going to lie to you about this. If you have been told, 'there was no glitch' then that is almost certainly the case.
    If you take that as being so, you need to look for something you have overlooked as an explanation. Perhaps support arrived in the last few mins. before he left his old tribe and it does not automatically get withdrawn on 37? (This is pure speculation but I find it is usually something obvious I have overlooked)
    I submitted a very silly ticket the other day, 'No outside support on 36' .... troops in a bonus barb, how could that be. Somebody had nobled it built troops in it and barbed out. Very simple yet I missed it and blamed the system.

    B) The 'no outside support rules' vary from world to world and to say the are 'glitchy' is putting it very mildly indeed. I do hope the next SD reads this. ;)
    You simply cannot trust the setting on any world. Why can't you?, I hear you ask. Because even if it did glitch, at no point will any losses of any kind be repaired in such a situation and if it didn't glitch just because you can't explain it doesn't mean it can't be explained. That they mod team won't mess with the troops, is set in stone, so whatever changes you are looking for as an outcome, just won't happen.

    What that amounts to is, you are basically, peeing against the wind and your shoes are getting wet ... perhaps it is time to stop or at least turn around and take a different tack. Perhaps if you ask nicely, the mod may explain what has happened ... but that decision is up to you and the mod in question ofc.
     
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  3. d1mension

    d1mension Well-Known Member

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    if troops were sent by players in his previous tribe before leaving, as long as they were in the same tribe upon landing the troops would remain

    by sounds of things this is what mods who you were talking to were probably implying.

    considering it was a nb attack the dude didnt need a astronomical amount of def to stop your hit, about 5kdef off top of my head based on your reports

    @peter The Settings are fine, the problem is peoples lack of understanding of them, Thier are 2 settings in relation to Outside support.

    [​IMG]
    Depending on the number in the 1st box you can have very different interpretations of the rule, 1 for example is super relaxed and allows hopping from tribe to tribe collecting troops. 2 however does not. So its important players understand what particular "no outside support" setting thier world is, as to know what can and cannot happen.
     
  4. PeterDGreat1

    PeterDGreat1 Member

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    I must admit Jack, I am a bit disappointed you didn't come back with a thank you at least. You don't have to like it but it doesn't hurt to be polite. :p

    d1, mate, it will take a lot more than that to convince me that the 'no outside support setting' is not very buggy. Sure, I will certainly concede that a lot of the time it is a player mistake but I believe there are too many incidents when it is not as well.

    Here is a different way to look at it Jack. Try this hat on for a few mins.

    If the mod replies with specifics to your questions, with direct answers and explanations of what went wrong when you attacked ITz John, they are basically advising you 'how to', noble another player. That would not be fair at any stage or in any way to the players involved.

    If you were John in this case, what would you think of the mod telling another player what he did wrong when he tried to noble you?

    When you take the time, (and usually in my case - cool off a bit) it can become clear that the limits of what the mods will or will not explain, are not intended to obscure the truth but often, simply the restrictions of being fair - to ALL involved.

    I know, this is probably another disappointing answer but perhaps this will help. Have you tried asking ITz John what happened? Some players can't help bragging and giving away what they should keep secret. It is a war game after all and up to you to exploit any mistakes you can persuade someone else to make. ;)

    To the mod team:- The irony of my suggestions in general is not lost on me.

    I doubt there is still a mod out there that I have not abused at some point ... almost all unfairly ... usually for things very similar to your situation Jack. If we can't bring ourselves to say, sorr... nah, we should at least remember that they do it for the love of the game and not to stick it to the little guys. If they wanted to do that, most of them could find much more satisfying ways to do it.

     
  5. Sausage95

    Sausage95 New Member

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    Hi Peter,

    Appreciate the response... Still yet to find the answer to my questions though! (Not particularly from you, just in general ha) - P.s. I did sign up to recieve a notification when someone replied but i never seem to have got one!

    I totally understand what you're saying about if there was no glitch, then the support team must always be right because they're the law............. Or so I'm told by the guy i was dealing with anyways. I wasn't looking for competitive advantage in my questions, I was genuinly concerned about the actions in the game and how I had come to be penalised. Of course, I still havn't found out why - But that was the main reason for my forum post.

    However, thinking about what I could have overlooked...

    - Had the 48 Hour Support Ban been lifted on any member in the tribe? Impossible. The tribe was only around 36 hours old when my attack landed. Meaning nobody in that tribe should have been technically able to send support to anyone else at the time.

    - Were they already supported before they moved over? Answer - all support withdrawn on leaving tribe.

    - Could they had been sent support before leaving, with the same members rejoining the new tribe? Village had been cleared at least 12 hours before support arrived... Not sure if they stopped for dinner on the way but isn't realistic in this circumstance.

    - Did support definately arrive from previous members in the same tribe? No, not all. Members in the tribe who had not been in the same tribe as John previous had increased in Supporter ODD.. which goes against the rule of a player must be in tribe 48 hours before sending support.

    To finish off, I did ask a few of the members, most said 'I dont know', the leader said 'We didnt think it would work, but it did'... So take it if you can get it I guess.

    Just wanted a second opinion... As the mod was becoming increasingly unhelpful.

    Jack
     
  6. dabookman

    dabookman Community Manager Staff Member Community Manager

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    And that mod will remain unhelpful, as someone has already stated, I'm not going to give you any information, I can see it all & I know what occurred. Accept that & move on please, if it was your account in question, we wouldn't impart any information about you to others..
     
  7. PeterDGreat1

    PeterDGreat1 Member

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    I have to admit, I am now intrigued by what happened in this case. So much so, I even went to the trouble of mailing ITzJohn on 37. :D :D :D

    You have my sympathy Jack, although, I am pretty sure you are simply wrong this time. I do believe that ...

    1) The game did not bug in this situation.

    2) There is a logical explanation which neither you or I know the answer to, at this point.

    3) All the likes from the mod team for my posts is depressing me, not to mention going to play havoc with my rep - I blame you for this Jack!

    I do assure all that my views expressed here are most certainly a case of, do as I say, don't do as I do.

    If you do wish to do as I do, perhaps we should start a new thread about legal ways around rules 9 and 10 ...

    §6 Misc
    1. All Moderators' instructions must be followed..
    2. Insulting/abuse of the Moderation Staff through Support Tickets or through the forum may result in in-game punishment.Impersonating members of staff will result in a permanent ban on your account.
    6 Misc. ix and x. , not 1 and 2.

    I do have some wonderful examples I could share going back years and the best part is they are never deleted. When I'm mad, I do find it is still fun to go back and per-ruse them from time to time.
     
  8. marcus the mad

    marcus the mad Senior Forum General Staff Member Administrator

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    I highly doubt said mod was "unhelpful" for the sake of being "unhelpful". As forum staff I currently have no insight on IG modding, but I do know that the very first thing is to not disclose information about other players' actions.

    When I still did do IG, I had to analyze battle reports for a ton of not-so-very-clever players and tell them to keep simulating. Some took days, weeks even but finally figured out they forgot "this buff" or "that extra paladin in support" and so on. You can read a lot from the numbers you can see and past information you had.

    Any mod will do his/her best to protect the fairness in the game. If the mod is not sure he/she can divulge some bits of info then playing safe is the way to go.

    Peter, I'm not sure what you are hoping to spread about insulting mods or impersonating them...? Please allow us to peruse these posts ;)
     
  9. PeterDGreat1

    PeterDGreat1 Member

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    Come now Marcus, I shall leave impersonating the mod team to the likes of Nauzwhore. I find it hard to believe any self-respecting player would actually like advice such as that, which I personally would consider amounting to, how low can you go.

    I was thinking more along the lines of talking in general about such things as narcissistic and masochistic tendencies players may randomly choose to discuss instead, when they come face to face with the urge to break the rules and 'insult' a mod.

    Ofc, we would also have to show some restraint here too, I mean obviously, talking about your parentage for instance would be strictly off limits as would what you get up to when you are alone in front of your screen. Bringing farm animals into it, would be a low point and certainly for us, they should definitely be left completely alone.

    As for speaking of the phenomenon that occurs to players accc's when they say, 'Bookie' three times in a row. That is just a lark and not him, fu**ing with us (funning ofc), and would be unmentionable.

    Ya know, that sort of thing, maybe dress it up and call it a guide. Perhaps call it, 'Sailing close to the wind' .... not that I would ever compare the words of a mod to flatulence and any similarity would simply be, merely coincidental.

    We could also encourage folks to ask more question like, 'Do you have any thoughts?, and perhaps any incorrect stresses or omitted words would simply be overlooked and/or may be attributed to bad grammar. I am right in thinking that you're not allowed to correct our grammar, aren't I? A chapter titled, 'Getting it wrong to get them right' ?

    Meh, just a bit of a random thought really. I mean whom would want to go to all that trouble for ... well, ya know. ;)
     
  10. d1mension

    d1mension Well-Known Member

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    Listen to d1 !!!!

    Gain warnham,
    same previous tribe as ur man,
    massive ods spike on 17th,
    rank 18 ods in a day (17th)

    Daisy143
    same previous tribe as ur man,
    massive ods spike on 17th,
    rank 18 ods total

    Ps most mods do suck hard, except that one guy....

    ... that id normally be able to name but gdpr stops me from complementing, oh well :D

    On a serious note, if world settings were layed out clearly, consistently and without changes perhaps players would use their thinking hats instead of jumping to "buggy game, silly mods, broken server" excuses.

    Just a thought
     
  11. Sausage95

    Sausage95 New Member

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    Peter, I'm also intrigued!

    Likewise I'd also like to think no mod is being intentionally unhelpful... but some conversations with them beg the question....

    plus D1, those 2 players which you've pointed out are exactly the types of players I'm referring to in regards to clearly getting support into ITzJohn's Villa when they shouldn't have been able too. Although they are in the same tribe now - They were never previously, and therefore should have been subject to the 48 Hour Support Ban Rule........ Only for whatever reason they weren't, which is one of the major questions that no one can give me the answer too!

    Don't get me wrong, the game might not have 'Glitches' - But in my opinion there seems to be an error which has happened somewhere along the line! I'm happy for someone to prove me wrong though.

    Jack
     
  12. PeterDGreat1

    PeterDGreat1 Member

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    Ok Jack, try this for size.

    ITzJohn was in the same tribe as a number of the same players that are now in DAFT. The 2 players D1 mentioned WERE in a different tribe and I can only assume the OD they received that night had nothing to do with you and came from separate attacks on a different player they were both supporting in the same manner.

    The guys who were in the same tribe as John before he left, sent him support. They ALL moved to the new tribe - while the support was en-route. When the support did arrive, they were all once again, in the same tribe and so, the support did not bounce (the answer you got from their leader saying 'we didn't think it would work' could be interpreted as he thought it would bounce) . Rather, it was accepted as support from fellow tribe members and ready to meet your nuke shortly afterwards.

    That is what I believe happened and everything I could check makes me believe it is possible. The support team could not say this directly no matter what you demand or chose to ignore. No bug or glitch was responsible for your lost troops. Some outside the box thinking from the tribe you were attacking gave them an edge that they exploited perfectly - to your cost.

    I also believe the support team gave you as much info as they possibly could and certainly gave you enough hints imho. The only thing that was stopping you reaching this possibility was your determination to get somebody to admit they were hiding something or worse again lying to you.

    If you want to take questions regarding fairness a step further ... you probably owe all concerned an apology. You really have pushed this 1 to the acceptable limits and at no point did you came close to having any genuine reason to question their integrity the way you have.

    Perhaps a lesson to take from this into the future, is that sometimes you need to take a step back to move forward.;)

    I shall look forward hopefully to your next thread .... anybody who fights their corner so passionately deserves a read .... especially when there is the chance they might be in the wrong.
     
  13. d1mension

    d1mension Well-Known Member

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    Dunno why but i thought rev was old tribe lol, still thier are 3 ex templr (get it right this time) players whom gain ods on the 17th, interestingly as thier support would of been pulled upon leaving tribe and wouldnt be able to send for 48 hours in new tribe, The only possible way for those members to gain ods on the day they did was swapping tribes mid tribe.

    You were either outplayed in that they knew this interaction, or they sent troops formed new tribe and got lucky in that you were blindsided by your lack of understanding of said particular rule and they ended up being pleasantly surprised.

    I dont mind a bit of mod bashing myself, but didnt mod who was dealing with your ticket even hint towards where the troops came from, cant ask much more than that.
     
  14. Sausage95

    Sausage95 New Member

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    Aahah its fine - So many tribes early world...

    I understand what you're saying though, if they had all moved from TEMPLR into DAFT and this happened, I could maybe understand how the game mechanics may have allowed such support to get in... But examples as the ones above seem to be unexplainable. If its a rule then it should be a rule all the time... not just sometimes.

    Again, the point I'm trying to get is, is that they shouldn't have been able to send these troops... making this situation bizarre.

    Of course the mods are supposed to explain particular rules.... And even though Its not about mod bashing... the one I had to deal with cough* *cough... hasn't justified me giving him 5 stars put it that way... Here's to me praying I'll find out what happened one day!

    Jack
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2018
  15. d1mension

    d1mension Well-Known Member

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    Correct me if im reading you wrong, but are you insisting that the rule had to of bugged in that the few members who went from templr to daft wouldn't of have enough support?
    I mean you only had a half nuke and it landed in nb, i think when i was playing with sim other day it turns out they would only need 4-5k def to be able to stop you with same wall damage, ie stopped to the same degree. Totally conceivable that 1 player could have 4-5k D, never mind split between 2-3.

    Dab can never get 5 stars. his proof reading is on par with my grammar, and that really is saying something :D (dont ban plox) x
     
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  16. brian the messiah

    brian the messiah Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    <3
     
  17. Sausage95

    Sausage95 New Member

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    Nah I’m saying... just take the two players we mentioned earlier.

    That spike in ODD shows they supported ITzJohn when they shouldn’t have been able. This shouldn’t have been the case as they were never in the same tribe as him before... So we can’t assume the game mechanics could have been twisted due to them being in the same tribe previously.

    Likewise I had cleared him 12 hours previously... so it wasn’t like support had been sitting there all day waiting for me to attack... I appreciate you’re trying to say old TEMPLR members had supported him, but also non ex TEMPLR members supported him also... quantities are somewhat irrelevant in the scheme of things!

    Jack
     
  18. d1mension

    d1mension Well-Known Member

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    You realise itzjohn wasnt the only daft member attacked that day, so Ods spikes can be from anywhere they are supporting/ you cant say for sure that any non ex templr in daft supported itzjohn,

    We know one thing for sure, old templr member could of supported him before leaving the tribe. that being the case whats more likely.

    The ex templr players troops + itzjohns troops killed your attack, which is all totaly explainable within the functions of the non support rule and very doable considering the numbers required to stop your hit.

    or

    Some crazy glitch happened that allowed rules to be bypassed happened, despite multiple mods and experienced players assuring you that this almost deffinitley isnt the case.

    At the very least, even if you are still defiant to the, (at least to me) very clear answer to the riddle. you must surely concede that thier has been no wrong doing or rule breakage that resulted in your loss, so you can play on in the comfort that a glitch bot isnt out to get you :D
     
  19. Sausage95

    Sausage95 New Member

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    D1 if you check TWStats correctly, you'll find only one other person was under attack in DAFT that day (Mask2000ph) - With him recieving +10k ODD (Which is actually quite a small scale attack...)

    Now TW Stats don't make it easy to check who has had an ODS spike... However they do show ODA/ODD spikes.. Aswell as OD spikes. Therefore you can tell if someone has had a spike in ODS by comparing all 3 with a bit of common sense. I.e. if someone has no increase in ODA or ODD, but they have a spike in OD, then clearly they've supported someone.

    So on that day (Thursday 17th) - Using the methodology above, there were a few spikes in ODS.... 4 of which players had never been in TEMPLR before... Contributing to a rough spike of around +25K OD between them (Minusing any relevant ODA/ODD away from this ofc - Not that there was any to minus off actually)..... So you can't even argue that these members had actually supported Mask instead... as the OD spike is too high - leaving your above point somewhat invalid.... This shows players who weren't previously in TEMPLR had somehow managed to support John.

    Again, I'm not sure why you're being slightly patronising referring to this as some 'Crazy glitch' - Because I've never said that, nor have I said a crazy glitch bot is out to get me... I deal with the facts in front of me, and they don't add up...

    Jack
     
  20. d1mension

    d1mension Well-Known Member

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    Your just making wild assumptions to fit a scenario you want, what if mask had 0 def himself so tribe did all the defending in his case, we know thats not the case with xxx as he had some troops.

    As i said you do not know that no templr ppl supported xxx, and you has been told no glitch occured.
    If you wanna continue being a conspiracy theorist, despite it looking pretty clear what happend be my guest.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2018