Family Tribes

Whilst perusing twstats to try to work out whether this world was still alive....(as the forums don't give me any clue there!!)... I note that we've reverted to true form in this world and we're infested with family tribes.

So tell me...

Why??

- Are you not capable of winning with just 20 players?

- Do you get lonely if there's only 19 other people to talk to in your tribe forums?

- Did you do it because everyone else has so you thought it was the new cool thing to do? (It's not by the way)

- Can you be honest and admit it was because you see them as tomorrow's internals?

- Is there any tribe in this world brave enough to play with only 20 members? (If there is I'm your new cheerleader)
 

Will O Baron

Guest
Herd animals following the leader, find one of those and you'll find what you seek.
 

*GranTorino

Member
I think most cases of family tribes are a combination of all of the above UV.

Mainly to set up merges/internals in later game though, which is a shame. Worlds would be so much more fun (considering their current size) if the 2 main end game tribe candidates for the world weren't easy to predict after the first couple of months.

Ban family tribes ? :D
 

Drift Banksy

Active Member
I may not like family tribes, but if we really think about it, isn't it just a name change???
As a tribe you are actively showing that you are allied to your family tribe above all other tribes, its the same thing as opening-ly displaying your alliance of your TW profile.
 

Plug in Baby

Well-Known Member
Personally i prefer small tribes anyway, so naturally am opposed to family tribes and allys for that matter. I'd much prefer to lead 6 strong accounts against the world.
 

Will O Baron

Guest
The reality is nearly every war is between 2 sides so why would it be that different here, unless you're looking for a Syria situation UV where everyone fights everyone else and no one wins?
 

*GranTorino

Member
I may not like family tribes, but if we really think about it, isn't it just a name change???
As a tribe you are actively showing that you are allied to your family tribe above all other tribes, its the same thing as opening-ly displaying your alliance of your TW profile.
The difference is in most family tribe cases one is inferior to the other, and the accounts on the inferior side end up forcefully merging with players OR being internalled. Provides an unfair boost to the main of the family tribe, as well as taking another potential single tribes worth of players out of the game without them being able to make decisions themselves.

Most cases, not all.

And two or more allied tribes are different tribes possibly with different goals and leadership styles, equal to one another in a diplomatic stance - making the difference in the comparison.
 
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sb007ck

Active Member
You know the phrase you can choose your friends but not your family? Doesnt apply here, W28 players jumping from one family to the next, obviously finding new people to adopt them, like kids being shipped from one care home to another.
 

DiMatteo030

Guest
Left the world due to there being a family formed in the tribe we were in. Not the major factor why we left, but 1 of. I do wish them look, as they have the players, but it did spoil the world, spoils any world
 
The reality is nearly every war is between 2 sides so why would it be that different here, unless you're looking for a Syria situation UV where everyone fights everyone else and no one wins?
Actually yes this is what I'd like only I disagree that 'no one wins'. Someone will win it just won't be instantly. It maybe due to me starting on .net when the worlds were bigger but I see no reason why the world needs to be whittled down to 2 'tribes' so quickly.

Maybe its due to a lack of capable leaders who are willing to continue fighting even when the going gets tough. On a world this small there really is no decent excuse for needing over 20 players to win.

As for the diplo vs family tribe argument how can they even be compared? In a diplo situation you still have 2 leaders of 2 tribes who believe they will win the world, they're just not fighting each other at this moment. In a family tribe players are mass recruited so that their villages can eventually be internalled.

Diplo = England and France working alongside each other in peace.
Family Tribe = England asking France to change their name to England2 so we can go over there and use their land/houses/businesses as we wish.

Whilst the real life family tribe does sound a nice idea for us thankfully the French people have more pride, dignity and love for their country than most tw players seem capable of.
 

Exsedor

Member
Actually yes this is what I'd like only I disagree that 'no one wins'. Someone will win it just won't be instantly. It maybe due to me starting on .net when the worlds were bigger but I see no reason why the world needs to be whittled down to 2 'tribes' so quickly.

Maybe its due to a lack of capable leaders who are willing to continue fighting even when the going gets tough. On a world this small there really is no decent excuse for needing over 20 players to win.

As for the diplo vs family tribe argument how can they even be compared? In a diplo situation you still have 2 leaders of 2 tribes who believe they will win the world, they're just not fighting each other at this moment. In a family tribe players are mass recruited so that their villages can eventually be internalled.

Diplo = England and France working alongside each other in peace.
Family Tribe = England asking France to change their name to England2 so we can go over there and use their land/houses/businesses as we wish.

Whilst the real life family tribe does sound a nice idea for us thankfully the French people have more pride, dignity and love for their country than most tw players seem capable of.
I think its more of a case of friendships made through other worlds.. Once players play together a few times, they begin to have a larger circle of friends, and everyone wants to play on the same side as their friends.

I came across a lot of players who would only be in the same tribe as players they know, so a lot of players start coming in package deals... hence why when you set 20 members limit, they will guarantee to have family tribes to be able to accommodate for all those friends.

Then there is the leadership thing, Its no longer about being a capable leader rather than how many good players you know and you can get to join your side. You can be a top class leader with decade of experience, but if no one remembers you or knows you well enough, they will most likely no join your side (and we all know how a tribe of rookies will hold up against a few veterans). Hence why many players with good leadership skills end up being on the council instead.

The game is not very rookie friendly, so there isn't much room for the rookies to grow and learn, and with all this premium exchange that been introduced into the game, the noobs dont stand a chance against the pro's.

New accounts instantly fall under disadvantage vs veteran accounts. The game can be difficult for players to learn and play as it is, but when you add into that equation the flags and the PP gained from other worlds, you end up with veterans having the upper hand on top of the experience they already possess! Most new players will quit once they get rimmed and will most likely never play.

Not only will good players outgrow all the rookies but they can also boost themselves with PP that they made from other worlds making it next to impossible to contest with and making sure that most new players never even get a chance to gain enough experience to become good.
So you end with worlds of the same players just on different sides, and it all comes down to who gets ahead first and who have the most friends!

TW is not what it used to be, so there is little point in crying about family tribes! The devs decided to have the business model instead of the player experience, pushing away any new talents. As someone who has been playing this for over 10 years now, I can clearly see how the game has changed, and why so many have left it.

Anyway, not here to rant about the game, I still play it and enjoy it... but only because I know all the ins and out and have been playing the game for a while now.
 
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You raise some interesting points and I agree that one of the problems with the players on this server is the need to play alongside 'friends'. Which really doesn't make sense as you wouldn't switch which football team you support because your friend supports another.

However I think you're missing the point that a good player can make decent players out of newer players if they put the effort in. It is possible for an unknown account to lead if they take the time to talk to and nurture the players they recruit. With the addition of the premium features, attack notifications and the app (making it possible to play everywhere) it is easier than ever now for a new player to grow just as fast as a pro, they only lack the knowledge.

I think the reason for the family tribes is because its an easy lazy way to win. It takes a lot less effort to recruit half a world than it does to fight them.
 

I am Shifty

Guest
You raise some interesting points and I agree that one of the problems with the players on this server is the need to play alongside 'friends'. Which really doesn't make sense as you wouldn't switch which football team you support because your friend supports another.

However I think you're missing the point that a good player can make decent players out of newer players if they put the effort in. It is possible for an unknown account to lead if they take the time to talk to and nurture the players they recruit. With the addition of the premium features, attack notifications and the app (making it possible to play everywhere) it is easier than ever now for a new player to grow just as fast as a pro, they only lack the knowledge.

I think the reason for the family tribes is because its an easy lazy way to win. It takes a lot less effort to recruit half a world than it does to fight them.

I can tell just from the 2 worlds I have played in the last 2 years, that the game is much more tilted towards 'friends' as has been said. If you are not awful, it is easy to join with them. But it is difficult to begin a tribe.

The last 'normal' world I played, and all those before it (this is UK teen worlds), I would create a tribe. I could pull in nearly any person I wanted providing they are in a decent position. It was easy to make people leave their friends to play with my tribe instead. People understood the fact that 'it's only a game' and that you can fight your friends with no hard feelings - in fact most people realised that it was more fun than just fighting any random. That's not the case anymore, it seems. Nobody wants to leave familiarity to make the world more fun and interesting.

The community is more tight-nit and boring than ever. It's flat. I've been reading these dead forums when bored and I can see why the worlds are going in the direction that this one clearly is.

It's easily possible for a good player to make new players into good players instantly. But they are usually only going to be temporarily good players whilst the good player spoon-feeds them what to do. They learn a bit, but not enough to do it on their own. But who wants to invest the time to do such a thing, or even to teach new players, when the game is as dead, boring and as repetitive as it currently is?

It's only easy for new players to grow as fast as pros by spending tonnes of money when the pros are not. Without P2W features they will never even come close. Nor will the good players, nor will the decent. That will never change.
However, it is extremely easy for a new player to become an average player. I believe after 2-3 worlds any new player should be able to be considered 'decent' by the current UK standards, and a top 10 competitor, if they have even a tiny bit of guidance and use their brain to be as efficient as possible in their growth.

There are far less players willing to invest the time into Tribal Wars as there used to be, that's no surprise. This accompanied with the fact that players do not want to leave familiarity, breeds for the boring family tribe victories that you will see on these current UK worlds.
 
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Exsedor

Member
You raise some interesting points and I agree that one of the problems with the players on this server is the need to play alongside 'friends'. Which really doesn't make sense as you wouldn't switch which football team you support because your friend supports another.

However I think you're missing the point that a good player can make decent players out of newer players if they put the effort in. It is possible for an unknown account to lead if they take the time to talk to and nurture the players they recruit. With the addition of the premium features, attack notifications and the app (making it possible to play everywhere) it is easier than ever now for a new player to grow just as fast as a pro, they only lack the knowledge.

I think the reason for the family tribes is because its an easy lazy way to win. It takes a lot less effort to recruit half a world than it does to fight them.
I disagree with this.. As someone who started a new account on uk servers beginning of this year, I went through exactly that.. Check my stats on w25.

I decided to lead a tribe, and started looking for members.. out of everyone that was already not in a tribe there were only a select few who I would consider to be good at the game. It took some time to convince them to join as they were not even planning to stay in the world, the rest of the tribe were rookies/average at best.

In the end after 8 month of fighting together with another tribe, we became sister tribes as its clear as day that we were not going to win the world ourselves as there were only 7-8 players in the tribe who were putting in the effort continuously while the rest just trod along doing next to nothing.

I tried training countless players throughout the 9 month I been in the world, and I can honestly say that only 2-3 players out of everyone we had have managed to get somewhere.. and even then, those players weren't complete beginners.. they just never got the chance to stick around long enough to gain enough experience at how the end game works.

We had many measures to deal with inactives including E-sitter and asking them to merge together, in the end I think we lost over 70 members (Tribe limit is 40) and we been forced to pick up players from fallen tribes just to fill up our ranks.

Playing with friends is easy, because you already worked with them and know what you are capable of, hence why everyone gathers their group of friends with them, to avoid having to deal with deadweight and players quitting after they get hit once. Maybe what TW need to do, is find a way to bring players back so that many strong friend groups can fight against each other.. Rather than set small tribe limits to separate those friends. I hope I dont need to point out how many times in history this happened!

P.S. Not matter how many guides you read and how much you train a player.. experience is the key, most new players dont get the chance to survive long enough to gain the needed experience that only comes mid-late game.

I tried training another guy in w28(here) all I got in the end for this was that he left the tribe, set me as duke and went to ally tribe saying he cannot deal with this level of game play as its too much stress..

EDIT: " With the addition of the premium features, attack notifications and the app (making it possible to play everywhere) " Thats a good advertisement from you, most new players dont even know that there is premium exchange, as its not explained anywhere until you find it yourself.
Push notifications are free on most apps btw.
 
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Drift Banksy

Active Member
In my personal experience, it really only takes 1 world to be decent. My first world i got to 400k points before i had to quit. It may have been luck and that i joined the world like 2 months late or something, but if you want to learn and someone tells you how to farm, gives you a base build and now with the added noble train feature, players dont even have to know how to use opera/t-trains and stuff. Who knows next they might add a snipe feature too, just to make the game really pointless.

Also I think people need to distinguish the difference in family tribes and academy tribes. On this world Disruptive have 2 tribes, that are evenly matched, so it doesnt look like they are mass recruiting for internals/merges ect. AS rank 2 & 3 i think, shows they arent just recruiting every noob on the street.
Then "The Knights Templar" have 3 tribes, which you can clearly see the imbalance of players. As i dont know every single player i cant tell if T2 and T3 are good or bad, but it definitely seems more likey for internals, maybe its as other people have stated. I'll be your friend if you let my 5 buds come to ect.
There definitely more family tribes and stuff in this world than most, well expect for w26 at one point it was very extreme.
WE all know TW is going/gone extinct on .uk, so no point crying about family tribes, lets just let people play the way they want to. People say it doesnt take skill, but you still have to prove yourself to be family tribes and have decent diplo skills (unless your best friend is leader of the other tribe)
 

Plug in Baby

Well-Known Member
IVe seen alot of players join T2 or T3 under the premise that someone in T1 has a noble claim on them, and that that would save them. I suspect its a means to prevent support to targets (further reinforcing the forced internal/merge point made by others earlier)
 

Exsedor

Member
In my personal experience, it really only takes 1 world to be decent. My first world i got to 400k points before i had to quit. It may have been luck and that i joined the world like 2 months late or something, but if you want to learn and someone tells you how to farm, gives you a base build and now with the added noble train feature, players dont even have to know how to use opera/t-trains and stuff. Who knows next they might add a snipe feature too, just to make the game really pointless.

Also I think people need to distinguish the difference in family tribes and academy tribes. On this world Disruptive have 2 tribes, that are evenly matched, so it doesnt look like they are mass recruiting for internals/merges ect. AS rank 2 & 3 i think, shows they arent just recruiting every noob on the street.
Then "The Knights Templar" have 3 tribes, which you can clearly see the imbalance of players. As i dont know every single player i cant tell if T2 and T3 are good or bad, but it definitely seems more likey for internals, maybe its as other people have stated. I'll be your friend if you let my 5 buds come to ect.
There definitely more family tribes and stuff in this world than most, well expect for w26 at one point it was very extreme.
WE all know TW is going/gone extinct on .uk, so no point crying about family tribes, lets just let people play the way they want to. People say it doesnt take skill, but you still have to prove yourself to be family tribes and have decent diplo skills (unless your best friend is leader of the other tribe)
You are correct there about -D-... do check each member out, all are veterans as far as I can see :)