HC Strategy

DeletedUser9748

Guest
From which mind has passed the idea of using HC as their main def/off unit? I am sure most of you are familiar with the HC strategy, where you have more offensive than defensive villas and you use Axes/HC to attack and HC/SP to defend. In that way in all villages you can have 3sp/3axes/3HC/2Rams/3Cats and leave the rest for scouts. You can use cats/HC/SP to defend and Axes/HC to attack along with the demolishing force of cats.

It is a difficult and risky strategy, you need careful planning and can only work if you have 15-20 villages and more. But for someone who has done it in the past, can prove very useful in that kind of worlds (slow speed, 15tech system).

What's your opinion there?
 

DeletedUser9748

Guest
Kriegsalad said:
Why are you so wrong?
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Why am I? When you need more Off villas than def for this strategy to actually work, that means more nukes must hit a target to have an impact. Sure it can work for less villas in a less demanding world, but generally more villas can guarantee greater success.
 

Deleted User - 695343

Guest
I often play HC strategy from the first village (start building HC after 1k LC). Not a viable option here due to the speed, need stable 20 to even consider it imho. In W36 I played HC strat midgame on a frontline account. Had over 10k incoming for several weeks and due to HC strat never lost a village, was able to constantly stack, snipe and move and recap.

I would highly recommend it for active farmers on frontline accounts in quicker worlds. Anyone else, not so much. Gotta be bringing in the iron and if you're not farming 24/7 it's just not doable.

I really can't see anyone needing it in this world. The speed doesn't make it feasible, nor is there enough skill on this world to provide the level of ops that might warrant such a strategy.

My strat also varied a bit to yours. I'm not such a fan of cats, so went ram 3 on tech. I can't remember my exact nuke build, but I think it was something like 8.5k axe, 1820 HC and 250 ram. The higher ram helps offset the diminished offensive capacity. A high axe nuke on a .5x world is a complete waste of time imo, you're talking up to 6 weeks build time which is insane. Much less axe and it's not worthwhile unless you are under heavy siege.

So in summary, my opinion is that it is an excellent strat if you're active, under heavy fire or frontline and in a relatively fast world with ms. In this world? No way.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Ballerond said:
Why am I? When you need more Off villas than def for this strategy to actually work, that means more nukes must hit a target to have an impact. Sure it can work for less villas in a less demanding world, but generally more villas can guarantee greater success.
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HC in no milisecond world is pretty necessairy imo, but as above said maybe not THIS world because 0.5
 

Deleted User - 695343

Guest
onetruth said:
Why does having no ms make any difference?
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Because HC strat on a frontline is used for sniping just as much, if not more so than stacking. I will snipe over stack any day as the losses will be less and HC is very expensive, so you tend to be quite protective of it! :icon_biggrin:
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Not at all. Infact if one person plays hc strat it can allow them to go extremely offensive, just having hc to snipe or support if necessary due to its quick support times and good D properties. So a person can use a ratio of 1 O: 0 D and just have their tribe support them when necessary whilst using all that offense to great effect. WLA did on w18, worked well.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I see that it would be useful to the rest of the tribe, having all that hc available for snipes over distance, plus an increase in the number of villages from which snipes can be sent. But when the hc-strat player needs support from his tribe, most defence points are going to be arriving as swords, all of which will fight at level 1.

Wouldn't the strategy work better to sacrifice a point from the cats or rams and up swords to level 2? Even if they weren't being built, it would significantly raise your tribesmates' ability to support you.

As you can probably tell, I've never played this strategy, though I've long been attracted to it. I never last long enough to try it on a 15-tech world. :(
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Due to you already having hc that pretty much covers the gen defence, you just need cav defence, which is why you have lv3 spears, for support.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I don't get that really. You say this strategy suits highly offensive play. Surely then most of your hc will be in off villages, and using it for support will weaken/delay your already weak/slow-to-build nukes. I would have thought you'd need tribesmates' support more than usual unless you are able to rely on sniping as your only sustainable defensive tactic. (The importance of ms seems clearer now!)
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
As much as I love black ponies, the HC strat isn't really viable on this world.

Sp/Hc is still the best D though.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
YGP. said:
As much as I love black ponies, the HC strat isn't really viable on this world.

Sp/Hc is still the best D though.
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Let me say this:
Sp/Hc is always the best def
HC strategy is only remotely good on 3 tech. And even there it isn't great.

The true HC strat was only really, really useful back in like V1 (.net beta timeframe), before they nerfed HC enormously. It can still be used on 3 tech worlds, but sp/hc/axe/lc is probably better.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
onetruth said:
what does this mean? did they originally have better stats?
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Very early on (at the time of .net beta and before), HC were stronger (per pop than swords, spears, axes, or LC) in terms of everything, cheaper than they are now, and had a move speed faster than scouts.
 

DeletedUser9748

Guest
As Queen of Hearts very well stated, maybe the 0.5 speed is a negative factor for using HC as main strat. But the key point in using this strategy successfully is if the tribe decides to follow it thoroughly and using it in every member/every village. HC start means no swords so noone will make swords. HC strat means some players will play full offence and some pure defence for the reasons you all have mentioned before.

The possitive factor though in this world for using this strat is the 20 tribe limit and no support outside of the tribe. That could lead to a better teamwork within the tribe without letting possible inactivity ruining it.
But it requires commitment and good knowledge of the game. Otherwise it will fail miserably...

P.S. I have seen players using cats as def/off in 15tech system very effectively. Specially a stacked village with 2k cats up to lvl 3 requires a LOT of nukes to be destroyed ;)
 

DeletedUser282

Guest
Ballerond said:
P.S. I have seen players using cats as def/off in 15tech system very effectively. Specially a stacked village with 2k cats up to lvl 3 requires a LOT of nukes to be destroyed ;)
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I think you have seen this from worlds with pally weps were bonfire is used to increase cats defence hugely.
Normally they have the defensive capabilities equal to that of 2 sword, whilst taking up 4 times the population space.
 

DeletedUser5774

Guest
I only employ HC/SP defense after I have a cluster. It is the best defense, but I only find it's viable in mid-game/late-game.
 
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