HELP!

[DeletedUser]

Ah, ok. I think some other settings (no outside support, church) more than make up for the gaps and fake limits in terms of making the world less family-tribe-friendly. I think these settings favour the less-active and less "skilled" key-presser, but it really doesn't feel "dumbed down" to me.

I like family tribes. Watching them collapse around you can be fun. There's no actual reason why they couldn't work well, just that they always seem to work badly.

 

[DeletedUser4753]

Some valid points assassin.

Although i definitely wouldn't say this world is dumbed down, once you delve into what exactly the "farm rule means" u see a world where u cant stack and go to sleep(sniping becomes the standard)
you see a world where complimented by the noble distances a lot of short range skirmish's
with no outside support you have 20 guys to your disposal not the usual 40
no outside support means you cant launch a train with bags of support, so if you wanna hold the village you going to have to snipe or retake from a retake.
Considering the noble distance and the farm rule, we are going to see 10x the amount of cats.
Cats even become a very legitimate neutralizer of players all the way till end game phase, ie once a vill is clear farm catted, you cant stop them.
considering nobles are spotted easily, these fanged fakes are not, so good organization on a player and a tribe level is required to pluck the cat's from the fakes.

This world i would be as bold to say requires the highest skill threshold of any previous uk world, u can talk about premium all you like, premium wont snipe a noble for you.

And attack gaps of any level could be cut up by any able player, t trains blag noobs head true, but if wanna be sure send from 4 different nuke/noble vills and time them within ms of each other and you beat any force ms gap.
The skill required to fire a T train? 0
The skill to time noble 1 to 5 within 5 ms? pro level

So what im seeing is defending is a lot more skill reliant, church's, farm rule, no outside support.
You need to be a very good timer to get buy as uber stacks are off the table, sniping will be handy as well, and a general high organization on a player and on a tribe level to provide activity and ability and stuff in the right place to deal with attackers.

Attacking becomes a lot more affective at the later stages, one maximum stack cannot hold a 20 wall, so even if you time in support after every nuke, your wall takes a hit, a maximum stack(with no timed support) can take 13 nukes approx, so no more whack 1 million troops in vill a b and c, and go to sleep. You cant follow nukes with support so even aggressive growers who can out nuke anyone still need a high defending ability.

Now find me any tribe on w13 where all its members already meet that skill threshold, if there is non then nobody needs another 20 dead weights.

Sure their is the growth argument, but if you never expended any nukes at war, never built defense and just focused nobling all day you would grow faster. But no one will argue that is the best way to play tw.

 

[DeletedUser4753]

Fake limit is more a time saver than dumb downer imo,
Any acc sitter can pluck out spam fakes, any acc sitter can not use the higher level defense ploys.

as much as sieving through 4000 fakes every day is fun, much rather have a beer n get to work doing the defending, as apposed to merely prepping for it

 

[DeletedUser]

really interesting. loads of implications i hadn't considered there.

 

[Triarii2D]

Personally I can snipe sub-150ms trains(and I think a reasonable amount of people will be able to snipe similar) which makes it easy to snipe Uk13 trains. Any decent player can continually land support between the first and second noble therefore making train killing easy. Which actually in the short to medium term is a huge advantage to already established players on the tw server, who can survive several noble attempts on their villa. A new player will be unable to snipe that unless they have been taught tactics and timings by someone more experienced. On a normal world 40ms trains are standard (or they were in TFF at least) and so few people can actually snipe these (and even less who actually hang around until late game).

The negative for me is the fake limit and churches. Churches encourage barb munching and extend the length of time it takes to compete a world. Ubers who noble all over the place are less able to do so unless they want to sacrifice several K population across many villages. The fake limit is a nightmare for those of us who can send 3000 fakes an hour when we put our minds to it. 30 nukes just isnt as daunting as 3000 fakes and just 10 nukes. There is a far larger scope of targets to hit without a fake limit. Again this setting appeals to the new player who will never have to face a real, proper assault. Thus they will never learn. Overall I think these settings decrease the skill of the playerbase, coupled with prem bonuses and we will see a serious deterioration in the ability of newer players.

 

[DeletedUser4753]

I personally go with you either someone doesnt know how to snipe or they can snipe anything.

With a pure i launch all my support method, peeps can usually snipe a 100 ms train.

with a support train(considering u get 5 tries at a train per village you can snipe sub 50 ms with relative ease, like i said u wanna be firing nuke nobles and independently timing them if you want the best success rate. granted nothing is untouchable, but you also have to think about the skill required to launch something,

sure attack gaps are easy to snipe, but t trains are easier to send
timed independent nuke noble are more challenging to keep tight, but far more challenging to snipe

I think no fake limit just favours the active, active people have the time to spam 4000 fakes.
active people have the time to dismiss 4000 fakes.
not much skill on either end imo, just lets a active players activity dominate the less active.
and as i try to play tw as a game in my life, as opposed to its my life and works,family, friends in the background

i played one world late game with no fake limit, never again

 

[DeletedUser4221]

Maybe my use of "dumbed down" was a little strong but IMO defending has always been easier then attacking and these settings only really stack the deck more into its favor even with its attempts to balance it out.

No need for me to say more Triarii2D post expresses my views nicely.

sure attack gaps are easy to snipe, but t trains are easier to send
timed independent nuke noble are more challenging to keep tight, but far more challenging to snipe

No one will try to snipe 1 noble per nuke they would pre noble and then recap it.

 

[DeletedUser4753]

Depends on whats available.

farm rule sways attacking ease far further though.

13 nukes breaks thee best defense, normally you can stack to kill 1000 nukes if you want, but just 13 here.

 

[DeletedUser9598]

No one will try to snipe 1 noble per nuke they would pre noble and then recap it.

Depends mate, you might find the last noble gets sent with defense as you cant support a vil outside your tribe, 3 nukes 1 D in a train

 

[DeletedUser]

If it's defence, it will sustain higher losses when it hits the previous nuke, though.

 

[DeletedUser4753]

I think baz is trying to say people will be less inclined to recap against a d, though considering 0 wall, maybe 0 farm, maybe not enough time for 1st church, a 2 nuke recap sorts everything, though if 0 nukes are available and there is a likely d coming in the last noble, id snipe it.
+ what if its a def village with troops elsewhere, in the switching of a village those troops all die, sure u keep the village but 20 k troops down the drain.

again because of the difficulty defending a new village i really do think cats are all the rage on this world, when i first got bonfire with old weapons i thought "great now it gives me this 1st"
But actually, considering how prominent cats will be, it may arguably be a close shadow of its new weapon usefulnes.
+cats have no maximum distance, nobles do.

 

[DeletedUser9598]

Yeah was just pointing out that not trying to snipe a train coming from 4 separate vils and instead opting for a recap isnt necessarily the best thing to do, as D1mension said what if that vil is a D vil with troops out supporting someone else, do you really wanna risk losing all that D when theres a possibility you can snipe the 4th noble as it has been sent with defense? Its obviously going to be costly whatever you do but there are means and ways round everything

Also with regards to this farm rule, i havent really given it the thought i perhaps should (might think about it tomorrow night instead of counting sheep) but.... is catting the farm down to virtually nothing really that smart, yeah i understand it significantly reduces the effectiveness any inbound support will have but likewise this applies to you once you have taken the vil, like i said not given it much thought but would be good to see others thoughts on this

 

[DeletedUser4753]

Aye that a good explanation of why you'd snipe them


I often find there a huge stigma people have people losing a village, they feel its thier baby thier oblidged to defend. sS will often try spam farm quick and pour troops in.

Also if they dont wanna defend it, fire cats left right and center and there 9k village becomes a 300 point one, yet still doesn't give them their nobleman back, so if you can catch players like this its almost worse to have it catted to nothing and have the burden of trying to build it back up and not having the noble man that losing the village gives you.
Sure its less benefit for you, but if this happens amongst the nobles, ie you rob 3 vills of your target, and demo another 2, its not like your losing out, ur just making the fakes more deadly.

Then on future hits you also let your defender know he cant just dodge or lightly stack spam fakes, cuz there may well be cats.
meaning he spreads thiner next time.
I use cats to this effect on normal worlds, but on this world they are gold.

 

[DeletedUser4221]

Yeah was just pointing out that not trying to snipe a train coming from 4 separate vils and instead opting for a recap isnt necessarily the best thing to do, as D1mension said what if that vil is a D vil with troops out supporting someone else, do you really wanna risk losing all that D when theres a possibility you can snipe the 4th noble as it has been sent with defense? Its obviously going to be costly whatever you do but there are means and ways round everything.

Got to love hand picking scenarios lol. The likelihood is this situation would be played out on someones front line meaning def. wouldn't be out supporting as local support on front line shouldn't be used for pre stacking, if someone sent that at me IMO pre nobling and recapping to me is one of the better options available.

While you snipe the 3rd/4th noble the nukes that land before have your wall down to 0 and the nukes can be reset when the return home, now you have to try to snipe with even less troops and keeping up that type of intensity is going to be taxing.

I haven't been under what i call heavy incoming since uk2 but if you can get a rest from the waves of incoming that you have to spend your playing time focusing on i would take the rest. I may lose the 20k worth of def. + whatever i lose recapping but in the process you have lost 80K (3 nukes and 1 def.) and i still own the village and now have a bigger window before those nukes are pointed at me or another tribe mates village again.

Just my view sure someone will come along and take it apart haha

Also with regards to this farm rule, i havent really given it the thought i perhaps should (might think about it tomorrow night instead of counting sheep) but.... is catting the farm down to virtually nothing really that smart, yeah i understand it significantly reduces the effectiveness any inbound support will have but likewise this applies to you once you have taken the vil, like i said not given it much thought but would be good to see others thoughts on this

I would never cat down any targets i intend to noble.

IMO the most effective place to cat would be someones core maybe even there back line but catting down a church trying to reduce the nuke strength to 50% will be hard to achieve giving that you would want to hit them when they are traveling, making it so they can't rebuilt it before they land and then having to try to send from a location that can make it before they land maybe prove difficult.

Aye that a good explanation of why you'd snipe them


I often find there a huge stigma people have people losing a village, they feel its thier baby thier oblidged to defend. sS will often try spam farm quick and pour troops in.

I agree but a big part of that is learning from mistakes and hard to make as many as we all use to in the past with such big time windows to snipe in.

Also if they dont wanna defend it, fire cats left right and center and there 9k village becomes a 300 point one, yet still doesn't give them their nobleman back, so if you can catch players like this its almost worse to have it catted to nothing and have the burden of trying to build it back up and not having the noble man that losing the village gives you.
Sure its less benefit for you, but if this happens amongst the nobles, ie you rob 3 vills of your target, and demo another 2, its not like your losing out, ur just making the fakes more deadly.

IMO thats more of a last resort tactic so if i can't have them nether can you but it can also have a negative effect on you as ideally you would want to limit travel times catting down every 2 targets out of 5 may slow down how fast you can take them out in the future and even more so when trying to support a village you can't send rolling support to.

Then on future hits you also let your defender know he cant just dodge or lightly stack spam fakes, cuz there may well be cats.
meaning he spreads thiner next time.
I use cats to this effect on normal worlds, but on this world they are gold.

Can't really disagree with that other then settings make it less effective when you can't just mass fake someone into a false sense of security otherwise just leaving a enough def. in those villages to kill off the cats isn't too hard, Its not really a issue when you can't really pre stack villages sky high due to the settings and when you use the method of sending small amounts of def. per village to stack meaning if the attacker wipes your def. your not rebuilding in a single village its spread through out many villages making it rebuild time faster then the nukes you just lost.

Replies in red

 

[DeletedUser4753]

I can't say i disagree with anything you have put, all you have said are very valid ways to play, and a lot of ploy in tw go down to personal preference anyway, if you get the job done, no one can criticize weather you chose to snipe or recap

IMO thats more of a last resort tactic so if i can't have them nether can you but it can also have a negative effect on you as ideally you would want to limit travel times catting down every 2 targets out of 5 may slow down how fast you can take them out in the future and even more so when trying to support a village you can't send rolling support to.

All i would say is (as you mentioned), if your catting runs are aimed at his back or core runs along with fakes, and your nobling most of his front line's, then shouldn't be an issue with slowing down as much, infact if your overwhelming nobles nukes and cats flying everywhere take the fight out of him quicker then your going to see a increase in villages yielded.

But definitely valid points Assassin

 

[DeletedUser4221]

I have to agree partly with your last point due to i doubt it would even take that amount of pressure these days to break someones fight as it seems that "fire in your belly" to stick it out under 100's of incoming is lacking let alone when it reaches the 1000's+.