"Premade Mentality"

DeletedUser

Guest
Hey, i'd to chat with you guys about the whole "Premade Mentality" we're seeing on .uk.

Ever since .uk opened, and in particular since the Premade's Forum opened, there's been an obsession with creation and joining of Premades going into worlds. Now i'd like to claim that this is something that's fairly new; something which was created with the creating of .uk. Firstly my evidence for this is anecdotal: When I was playing on .net, there wasn't this obsession with Premades, the majority of people I met joined just turned up to worlds and either formed tribes on the spot, or found one there. But also because the Premade forums in .uk and .net (the .net one being created fairly recently, like .uk) if you look at the figures .uk has more threads created and around 4k more posts in it (7,900 in .net compared to 11,700 in .uk), despite the much smaller playerbase.

The fact is .uk is gripped with an obsession with people making.

That's an observation, this Premade Mentality has gripped .uk.

And if you ask me, this really sucks.

Firstly because the system (a forum for players to find premades) is weakened. People think to get any kind of acclaim they need to form a premade. And most of these premades just fall apart. People make premades for 3 worlds in advance, just to try and make sure players aren't commited. Many leaders drift off and so premades fall apart. The same happens for members, and some of the dedicated leaders reach a world and only 60% of members turn up, because Premades are cheap and commonplace. Premades are now a dime a dozen, so why respect it, why bother to dedicate your time to fulfilling your commitment. Both the leaders and players are less likely to turn up, and ain't that just horrible?

Secondly because most of these players are average. That's not me being snobby, that's the truth. They're average, i'm average, you are (most likely) average. And what this does is, it shuts out players of the same calibre who don't use the forums. These players normally join tribes at which recruit at grassroot levels, who look around the continent and invite nearby players, and there are weaknesses, and these tribes aren't amazing. But these average players aren't getting into tribes with their equals, because their equals and peers are all arriving in the world with an inflated sense of importance within their flawed premades. And yes members of premades which fail will join tribes with these guys, but that's far less tribes than there would be normally. So for players who don't use the forums, this Mentality of "You Can't Join A World Without A Premade" is really hurting their chances of getting into an alright tribe, with a leader who'll copy-paste guides for them, where they can have an enjoyable atmosphere and where they can progress and learn.

Thirdly, because things are better in threes. Just the sheer amount of ego in the section of the forum. This is a private problem of mine, but 7/10 threads in the Premade section have the leader bragging that they're great, and will only take the best. The amount of leaders who wouldn't make their own criteria, is just mindboggling.

Now i'm sure there are upsides, like greater inclusion in the whole elitest-premade thing for normal players, and further downsides, like generally weaker premades, because premades were only better than normal tribes because they wer better organised and worked well together. So what do you guys think about this whole Mentality, if you believe it exists. ;3
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I don't think there is any difference between here and .net . I think premades bring more fun and anticipation to the game.
All the premades I have been in have recruited players unknown at some point . It is something to work towards achieving , getting into a premade of your choice.
I think you'll find some experienced players are bored of the premade 'mentality' and are choosing to go it alone more often to try something new and play with less experienced players in order to help them out or just to challenge themselves by playing alone or in very small group.

Premades have been around since I started playing and my first worlds I entered into a tribe later in the world that were premades so it never effected me joining the world alone then finding a good tribe.

I'm sure there are downsides for people but I don't think they are detrimental.

Lisa <3
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I dunno, I think the scale of things have changed.

There seems to be a massive amount of interest in Premades here, which is disproportional to the size of the world, and the amount of players. W3 is just about covering 4 continents at the moment, but the list of premades suggests there could have been up to 20 premades tribes at the start of the world.

That's a lot of the potential leaders, and a large amount of the average players all tied up, which has got to leave new players in the cold, in terms of finding a tribe, and as the growth is much slower here than .net, new players are trapped in the outer-core with all these premade tribes.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
You make some great points but i have to agree with Lisa, for one i really like the hype and excitement that comes with premades prior to a world opening, and also i dont think that they do any real damage to the world, premades do often fail, but those members dont usually just quit the world they join other tribes or start their own.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Although, he has got a point, if you look around the premades forum, there are threads going up for W6 premades, a world which probably isn't coming out until next year! The chances of every member who signs up, even remember that they've signed up for a premade are miniscule to say the least, some might have even left the game completely. Only around 1 in 20 threads posted there actually get people applying, the majority just try and find various flaws in the leadership.

I joined (or tried to) a premade for W3, and it looked promising, was even being talked about by other people as a decent premade. But when the world some out, around 30% of the people who signed up even bothered to join the world, let alone join the tribe.

The point is, people should really think whether they have what it takes to make a tribe successful, and not just go 'I've made a tribe before, but it failed, so I'm trying again!', which tbh is really what most of those premade leaders are doing.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
There is a problem for leaders. Since there are two way of starting a tribe, pre-made or on the world. When you do a pre-made, you generally will end up with a list of players. Even if they are average, normally they will stick together if the screening process was any good.

The other option, which is to create a tribe on the world, is much more difficult. There is no way of knowing who is good who is not. Even if you do, there is no way they will join a tribe with only you in it (unless you are somebody completely pwnage). So the only way to start this is mass recruiting. Which brings in members but has many cons. For example, you will end up with a bunch of noobs, so it takes much more effort to guide everybody and make sure they are all on the right track. Also, if a good player see you mass recruiting, they will immediately dismiss your tribe as a possibility. The only way to regain their attention is to succeed until nobling when they can see that your tribe is not full of idiots.

Compare to that, making a pre-made is so much easier. Even if the original members leave, you will still get enough advertisement through out the world to attract many more people. On w3, even after the leader of Chess was found to be a fake, the tribe is still running and hanging around the top 5 ranks.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I'm not too big on premades much anymore, and despite Ego!!!, I prefer to gather small tribes of 5 to 15 players last minute for a bit more fun. I'm also quite fond of the whole "helping new players" thing. Premades are losing interest for me, as well as many other players, but yes, the whole idea of premades is getting out of hand. Since en19 the whole phenomenon has grown, as was said, players think that being in a premade, or worse, leading a premade, makes them "cool", "popular", "famous", and "elite".
 

DeletedUser3050

Guest
It's as simple as this: This is happening more and more because TW is aging and, as such, more and more premades start forming with players who've played for a long time and developed friendships with players from previous worlds. I don't think there is anything wrong with it, though I do agree with some comments regarding the arrogance surrounding them.

I, personally, never joined a single premade before .net w28 (and i've played on multiple servers but predominantly since w1 .net). I love premades and will continue to join and form them just for the fun factor of playing with a small group of good friends :icon_biggrin:

Woo, Ego!!! ftw <3
 

DeletedUser

Guest
PS did not read any above since text was all dull, and long


Premades are good for the start of worlds, they make those dull couple of weeks, where people either follow specially layouts or just wing it like me. Nothing really happens, u attack someone and lose your whole offensive thats you down for a week at least.


premades cause light entertainment but never last long.

Personnallly i want the next world to have that thing where u can not choose your start up location
 

DeletedUser

Guest
These days people talk about premades the same way that we old schoolers used to talk about family tribes back in W3 - W13 ish era days.

Looks like the community has found a new pet hate.
 

DeletedUser1508

Guest
Heh, once again its an example of 'peer pressure'. A few people mention that premades might be the source of the unbalanced tribes in a world etc, and everyone else joins in, taking it farther than the initial people meant.

Although I see nothing wrong with premades in themselves, I don't like the way everyone seems to think "premade or die". Its as if there is no longer any real choice when planning to join a world. 'Either you join a premade or you get thrashed by one.' And that is the kind of closed minded mentality that I don't like :icon_sad:
 

DeletedUser

Guest
[th]Firstly: I personally am not a fan of premade tribes, yet they are a big (and valid) part of nowadays gameplay in Tribalwars. But I highly refuse to accept the statement, the number of premades grew since .uk, or since there's an own subforum for premades. I was Elder Moderator on .net for long enough to know, there were tons of premade announcements, spread all over the forums. This exactly was the reason for the own premade subforums, to filter those threads from the worlds' or general forums.

A lot of reasons, why people think premades are fun or not were said already, so I don't need to repeat them. And of course the Tribalwars community is developing "cliques", friendships and - of course - rivalries. It's only human nature that people, who learn to know and like each other, are tryting to reach their goals together - against others.

Additionally most premades (also as already said) aren't a private function, most recruit new players and are a great opportunity to learn about game- and teamplay. The premades, which consist of friends only, usually aren't announced in the forums anyways.

Premades are a sign of the steadily developing dynamic of the communtity of such games like Tribalwars. As are mass tribes. One doesn't have to like them. But they won't dissapear anytime soon.[/th]
 

DeletedUser

Guest
clueless42 said:
Hey, i'd to chat with you guys about the whole "Premade Mentality" we're seeing on .uk.

Ever since .uk opened, and in particular since the Premade's Forum opened, there's been an obsession with creation and joining of Premades going into worlds. Now i'd like to claim that this is something that's fairly new; something which was created with the creating of .uk. Firstly my evidence for this is anecdotal: When I was playing on .net, there wasn't this obsession with Premades, the majority of people I met joined just turned up to worlds and either formed tribes on the spot, or found one there. But also because the Premade forums in .uk and .net (the .net one being created fairly recently, like .uk) if you look at the figures .uk has more threads created and around 4k more posts in it (7,900 in .net compared to 11,700 in .uk), despite the much smaller playerbase.

The fact is .uk is gripped with an obsession with people making.

That's an observation, this Premade Mentality has gripped .uk.

And if you ask me, this really sucks.

Firstly because the system (a forum for players to find premades) is weakened. People think to get any kind of acclaim they need to form a premade. And most of these premades just fall apart. People make premades for 3 worlds in advance, just to try and make sure players aren't commited. Many leaders drift off and so premades fall apart. The same happens for members, and some of the dedicated leaders reach a world and only 60% of members turn up, because Premades are cheap and commonplace. Premades are now a dime a dozen, so why respect it, why bother to dedicate your time to fulfilling your commitment. Both the leaders and players are less likely to turn up, and ain't that just horrible?

Secondly because most of these players are average. That's not me being snobby, that's the truth. They're average, i'm average, you are (most likely) average. And what this does is, it shuts out players of the same calibre who don't use the forums. These players normally join tribes at which recruit at grassroot levels, who look around the continent and invite nearby players, and there are weaknesses, and these tribes aren't amazing. But these average players aren't getting into tribes with their equals, because their equals and peers are all arriving in the world with an inflated sense of importance within their flawed premades. And yes members of premades which fail will join tribes with these guys, but that's far less tribes than there would be normally. So for players who don't use the forums, this Mentality of "You Can't Join A World Without A Premade" is really hurting their chances of getting into an alright tribe, with a leader who'll copy-paste guides for them, where they can have an enjoyable atmosphere and where they can progress and learn.

Thirdly, because things are better in threes. Just the sheer amount of ego in the section of the forum. This is a private problem of mine, but 7/10 threads in the Premade section have the leader bragging that they're great, and will only take the best. The amount of leaders who wouldn't make their own criteria, is just mindboggling.

Now i'm sure there are upsides, like greater inclusion in the whole elitest-premade thing for normal players, and further downsides, like generally weaker premades, because premades were only better than normal tribes because they wer better organised and worked well together. So what do you guys think about this whole Mentality, if you believe it exists. ;3
Click to expand...

First of all nice post.

However I do disagree on some points you bring up. First of all your assumption that the "premade hype" has been caused by the opening of the premade subforum I think is disputable. For example my first ever world was on w32 net and I was in a tribe called H.L, and after looking through the tribes internal forums I came across a thread where a member was trying to recruit members internally for his premade (for w34). And I've been in many tribes where similar things have happened, so I don't think premades are anything new they've just not been as exposed as they are now.

On net before the premades subforum most players who were creating "open" premades (meaning anyone could apply given they meeted reqs) were usually just dumped in the general section of the latest world, and depending on the mod it would be left alone or closed. And sometimes reputable players just posted their premade pg in the world that they were playing at the time. So imo the opening of a premade subforum has just made the ability to make premades easier, nothing more or less.

In regard to your 2nd point I do agree that it is unfair that the avg player will not get into any of these top tribes (without exp) because most top tribes nowadays are formed by players who have known each other in excess of 6-12 months and sometimes longer. Theres not much you can do though tbh, you just have to put up with it and fyi I don't like it either. What would be nice though if some "random start" worlds opened in the future which would giver newer players a chance to last in the core longer, and may encourage players to lead where in other worlds they wouldn't have, in the fear of getting crushed by a premade.

I think in Tribal Wars every player (unless introduced by an exp friend) follows the same path where you begin Tw as a noob and join the tribe that sends you what you now know as a "mass recruit" mail and you make friends there. And naturally if you plan to start on a new world you might ask friends that you have already made if they want to join you. That is what I have always thought a premade was. And like you said most premades do fail because most of the members of a premade may move onto the next new world, and then the members who do stay get taken in by tribes that were naturally made ingame (this is what happens from my exp, not saying it always happens like this).

One final thing, the most fun I've ever had on this game was in my first ever tribe (which was naturally formed ingame). Everyone their including myself was new to the game and we didn't have a clue what we were doing. I got a "mass recruit" mail like I was speaking of, from Der Reich and was the 2nd player to join the tribe and was made Baron after the frist week lol. After 3 weeks of hard work we were rank 2 in k32 and eventually took rank 1 (with total tribe pts of 4m). We then got into a fight with a premade called Hostile (formally known as RimJob) and fought them for a gruelling 3 months and eventually lost, however they gloated as the war began that they'd beat us in 2 weeks. So ye my point is it is a lot more fun playing each world as it is the first time, you get to meet more people and more importantly you'll have a lot more fun win or lose.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
premades have always existed and will always exist. look at the stats after 1 or 2 months and most of them are gone. the real "old school" premades you wont even find on the fora since there is put a lot of work in putting them together and most of the people know each other. you have to have a bit of luck to be not to far away from each other but normaly every player can stand on his own for 1 or 2 months without needing a lot of support. why they grow that fast is easy to explain they all know what they do and there has been taken care of a 24/7 sitting system so they can go full. off wich is very advantagous and without risk since you can count on your sitters to dodge. you have a point on wath you say but 50% of the will not even start and of the other 50% you may be luckey if 10% stays.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Eh, Thar covered it pretty well, the more successful premades are usually not advertised, and these are usually small numbers made of friends. They will often take in a few new members.

also, premades usually kick off the pnp. I don't see the problem though, people just rather to join a premade as they are guaranteed a tribe that will be satisfactory.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I've found that, It's more fun to join a pre-made tribe than to just start off the world Solo.

Being in a pre-made, you're more likely to know and have a nice bond with the players around you, leading to better tribe co-herance, and more fun all round.

I'm aparently leading a pre-made for Uk4... Which, was unintentional, but, we all click well enough, and it should be fun, regardless of the end result.

Some pre-mades have differences about them, i.e. The Battle Royale, what Card Sharks are doing on Uk4, and things like Monty's premady for UK6.

It adds more variation and fun to the tribe, and the world.

All in all, i think pre-mades are a good thing.

YGP.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Clueless42 you just had the time to do what I didn't want to and I couldn't agree more.

I'd also like to add, there are people playing, uk1/2/3 and already thinking in making a pre-made for .uk4 and .uk5 and in my opinion this shows a lot what you've described above. I agree with all of your 3 points mostly with point number 3, pre-mades serve the purpose of ego-boosting to some people.

TBBT
 
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