Startup - A High Level Overview

Discussion in 'Guides, Calculations & Strategies' started by Nauzhror, May 30, 2018.

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  1. Nauzhror

    Nauzhror Well-Known Member

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    I’m not going to play out a specific build order that you should follow. Why? There isn’t one, it’d vary too much world to world. What I will instead do are go over basics that will put you on the right path.

    If you have any specific questions after reading this then please feel free to ask them and I will do my best to answer them as promptly as possible.

    The primary goal during startup is 24/7 queues. This means constant troop production in your barracks, stable, and workshop alongside constant building production.

    Before this is possible you will want to spend your resources in the following manner.

    Prioritize stable production over barracks production, and both over buildings. Buildings however take precedence over workshop simply because it takes so much less time to make the number of rams you will want than it does to create the full amount of barracks or stable troops you will want.

    Stable is the #1 priority because of the importance light cavalry and to a lesser extent scouts have in efficient farming. Farming is the secret to fast growth at startup. If you’ve ever seen someone growing incredibly fast and decided they were “pointwhoring” (neglecting troops to focus on points), they almost certainly weren’t. The fastest way to grow is to farm, a lot. Farming that much requires a lot of troops. Essentially the more troops you have to farm with, the faster you can grow.

    The goal when farming is not to get large hauls, it is to get as much total resources as possible, typically this has more to do with the quantity of your hauls than it has to do with the size of them.

    Typically I farm with 1-2 lc at a time. I start with the closest villages and send to the barbs in ascending order of distance until I run out of troops to send. I send 1 lc if the previous haul was non-full, and 2 if it was full. The trick to efficient farming is to attack all villages equally often. If you attack close villages more often then you attack villages farther away you are forcing yourself to farm a larger area than is optimal. ie. You should not be sending troops to a village, and then sending them again when the previous attack reaches its destination. It’s much better to have multiple attacks heading to villages at once, so that you are getting the resources the villages have generated in the last ‘x’ minutes. Your activity level will dictate what ‘x’ is. If you’re at the computer all day, you can farm each barb every 10 minutes. If you’re busy doing other things ‘x’ can be a half hour, or an hour, or 2-3 hours, etc. The key point is that you should be attacking all your farms equally often.

    Barracks is the second priority – most people are probably going to opt for axes, but this is by no means necessary. You can do very well with a defensive startup, I’ve in fact never attempted it without being the rank 1 player on the world.

    If you are making axes, it is often better to not actually farm with them, but to use them alongside your rams to knock down the walls in all of your farms as quickly /aggressively as possible so that your small farming parties of 1-2 lc are not hindered by walls.

    If you made defense in your first village (which you should), then 2 sw/2 sp and 4 sw/sp works similarly to the 1/2 lc method outlined above. I picked these numbers for a few reasons. 2 sw/sp have a carrying capacity of 80. The same as 1 lc. Sticking strictly to 2/2 or 4/4 means you should never have too many spears or swords home and not enough of the other. If you did 2/2 and 3/5 you would have potential issues with this depending on how many of your farm runs were resulting in full hauls.

    Why did I specifically say that you should make defense in your first village?

    Because I’m sick and tired of seeing the scenario below:


    I’m not saying that your entire village should be defense, I am however saying that you should make roughly 500 spears and 500 swords in your first village. This is enough to help with sniping if necessary, and it also enough to stack together with tribemates to take out pesky attackers. Defending at the early stages is not a solo endeavor. You should be aiming to defend as a team and split the rebuild times between multiple people.

    To some people that might seem like so much defense that they will cripple their offense and be unable to noble a player as their first target. This is not accurate. I am currently playing a world where I have 2,466 points. I currently have 73 scouts, 1,272 light cavalry, 213 rams, 500 spears, 500 swords, and 1,811 axes. Could I have more axes if I’d skipped making the spears and swords? Sure. Do I need the extra axes? No. I’ll still have plenty of axes when I reach a full noble train.

    So, you have constant stable and barracks production. Now what?

    Mines. There’s no set order to build your mines in, but you will probably want iron higher than the rest due to how much iron both lc and hc cost. HC aren’t a particularly great unit, but I you’re making your first village defense then you will want to make them when you are able to. Even if going defensive first village you should make lc nonstop until you are able to make HC.

    Build mines and nothing but mines until you can afford to have constant building queues. Again, buildings are your third priority, you only build them with resources leftover after a constant stable and barracks queue is assured. The only exception to mines is that you will need to raise warehouse and farm occasionally. You build those when you need them. When that is will vary person to person. If you are playing solo and your warehouse is overflowing overnight when you sleep then your warehouse is too low – raise it.

    As far as buildings, I’d advise raising your mines as high as needed to run constant queues alongside farming. There are no set levels to recommend. Once that is obtained raise HQ to level 20. Higher level HQ levels allow buildings to build faster, this accelerates the rest of your village, and indirectly impacts your troop production as well by increasing the speed at which you can build barracks and stable levels.

    Be careful not to raise your barracks or stable too high. This might seem counter-intuitive. You want more troops, right? Therefore you need a higher level barracks and stable? Not necessarily. There’s two major caveats.

    It only matters how many troops you do make. How many you could make is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter if a level 25 barracks makes troops faster than a level 20 barracks does if the level 25 barracks isn’t being ran 24/7. We’re dealing in actual results, not hypothetical ones. If you can’t afford a constant queue after raising your barracks or stable you shouldn’t be raising it. Even if you can afford a constant queue, you still shouldn’t necessarily be raising it. The goal is to have more troops on your account. That doesn’t necessarily mean having more troops in your initial village. Noble rushing is a very underrated strategy.

    A level 25 barracks makes troops twice as quickly as a level 13 barracks does. A level 20 stable makes troops twice as quickly as a level 8 stable does.

    I typically begin rushing for nobles with a level 15 barracks and a level 10 stables. Someone with a level 25 barracks and level 20 stables will make troops 79% faster than me. This doesn’t mean they will have 79% more troops than me though, because until they exceed my targeted levels they won’t necessarily be making troops faster than me at all, and even once they do they won’t be making them 79% faster till they reach 25/20. The problem is that by the time they have reached 25/20 I will have numerous villages, most likely at least 3 villages, quite possibly as many as 5 or 6.

    A level 15 barracks and a level 11 barracks will outproduce a level 25 barracks. The noble rush path especially gains on the full nuke before nobling alternative once the person going for the full nuke reaches a full nuke. When they hit the population cap on their first village the other person who is still building troops in their initial village will have already had more troops than them on an account-level, but they will pull much farther away from here on out.

    Many people believe that the merits of noble rushing depend on your area – they don’t. In any area noble rushing is good.

    Lets say you have a very fast growing neighbor near you. It’s optimal to beat them to academy and noble them before they can get a second village. This helps remove a threat from your area, and most likely a farmer from your area, resulting in more future income for you.

    Now, instead lets say your area is terrible, and there are no good noble target available to you. If you’ve managed to grow to 4,000 points and obtained a noble train by the time your neighbors have reached 1,000 points, do you think it’s in your best interest to sit around and wait for them to grow their villages to a larger size? No. Absolutely not. Bad noble targets are always bad noble targets. They are in fact going to become worse noble targets as time goes by. It is better to noble them as soon as possible, because the sooner you noble them the sooner you can begin growing their village at a more acceptable rate, and also the sooner you can begin creating troops in it.

    It’s better to noble a 1,000 point village and grow it to 4,000 points and make 10,000 troops in it over the next two weeks than it is to noble a 2,000 or 2,500 point village two weeks later.
     
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  2. Desert Treasure

    Desert Treasure New Member

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    So this post doesn't cover the effects of premium, which is a requirement in modern TW. Efficient expenditure is pretty important, and I am sure the tribalwars community would welcome you sharing your input on such matters, which is no doubt built on mounds of experience. Using a small amount of premium effectively won't get you rank 1 in this age (you need a lot more), but it will still make a huge difference.

    I would also be most interested in an in-depth description of the "borrowing and not paying back" method you used on uk32, in which I heard you efficiently spent 60k premium to gain rank 1.
     
  3. theamk

    theamk Well-Known Member

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    Very good post.

    This is exactly what I do in speed rounds aswell. Only changes for speed are that I go for something more along the lines of 20 to 22 barracks and at least 15 stable. Also don't really bring pits higher than 15 max until academy is built unless farming is terrible
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
  4. The One

    The One New Member

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    This guide in a modern view is utter trash and misses the fundamental changes that have occurred in the game. This is what I would classify as a pseudo-elite guide. You do not understand efficiency at any level this guide will cost the user approximately 75% more resources that could be better spent in expansion. It ignores the reality of strategic nobling and diminishing farming competition through nobling. It fundamentally misunderstands modern start up.