TOP 10 tribes based on skill

DeletedUser13573

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obviously out of the league of every tribe on its world
I'm wondering what makes some players better than others? How do you distinguish a great player from a decent player?

uk10 Pandas was rank 1 with 14 members while rank 2 had 39 members.


If top18 w31 players gathered together and made a tribe it would have over 4mil points so it was probably just a matter of players that were already high in rank making a tribe together. I am almost certain that we will never see a premade tribe rising so high above every other tribe in a world because people need space to grow and if at least two of those great premade players spawned close to each other, their clusters would clash and they would essentially lose half of their potential noble targets, significantly decreasing their growth.

It's funny when world winners join another world together thinking they are a great team of good players and get destroyed because all the circumstances that let them grow in the world they won are different now and the game immediately becomes more complicated than it seemed to be.:D
 

Nauzhror

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If top18 w31 players gathered together and made a tribe it would have over 4mil points so it was probably just a matter of players that were already high in rank making a tribe together. I am almost certain that we will never see a premade tribe rising so high above every other tribe in a world

No, it was a premade. It was a premade I personally led.

It's funny when world winners join another world together thinking they are a great team of good players and get destroyed because all the circumstances that let them grow in the world they won are different now and the game immediately becomes more complicated than it seemed to be.:D

Not the case at all for the players in question. These are players that have consistently been top on every world I have seen them play on over a span of 9 years.

How do you distinguish a great player from a decent player?

Consistency and game knowledge.

I've actively played 7 .uk worlds, rank 1 on 5, rank 2 on the other 2.

I don't think someone is great because they got rank 1 once. If they can't consistently do it world after world then there's too much luck in their gameplan. Similarly, just talking to someone, and getting an understanding of how well they know the game can usually tell me more about a players ability than anything else.
 
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DeletedUser14312

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Consistency and game knowledge.

I've actively played 7 .uk worlds, rank 1 on 5, rank 2 on the other 2.

I don't think someone is great because they got rank 1 once. If they can't consistently do it world after world then there's too much luck in their gameplan. Similarly, just talking to someone, and getting an understanding of how well they know the game can usually tell me more about a players ability than anything else.
Not to diminish your performances, surely finishing rank 1 five times is very, very impressive, but I think rank has very little to do about how skillful you are in the game. I mean, the "skillcap" in this game isn't really high, when you know all the tricks it's all about activity and have some sense of strategy. There are players who are extremely good, but are lacking activity and may therefore be lower ranked, while the top player is having 4 people on the account and is active every second of the day. So that's not a fair comparison.

Also ending rank 1 is very much of a patience game. The world is usually pretty much done months before it finishes, and during that period it's just a Sim City game to get those required percentages, because the opponent has already given up. From my experience, some loves that time and nobles like crazy so they climb in rank really fast, while others get tired of it and just log in to keep the account active. I don't know how it was for you, you might have been rank 1 the entire world? :p
 

Nauzhror

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I didn't end the worlds at those ranks, I was those ranks when the worlds were at their most competitive.

I think the skillcap is also much, much, higher than most people realize.

There's lots of people well below the cap that think they're actually at it.

It's not the teachable stuff that separates good players from great players. It's the more subtle decision making stuff.

As for co-playing, I did some worlds.

uk2, rank 1- solo
uk3, rank 1 - solo
uk6, rank 1, more than double rank 2's points - 3 person account
uk7, rank 1, 2 person account
uk10, rank 2, 2 person account
uk14, rank 2, 2 person account
uk18, rank 1, 2 person account

I soloed a lot when I was younger, had less time as I got older.

I've been rank 1 on over 30 worlds between .net/uk/us/de/se/twm, it's not luck, it's not co-players, as although I have co-played many worlds, I've been rank 1 solo over 15 times, and been rank 1 with multiple different co-players.

1 Pandas 281.824 281.824 14 20.130 58 4.859
2 PG 266.427 266.427 39 6.831 73 3.650
3 Fleeto 258.770 258.770 37 6.994 77 3.361
4 evoL 229.407 229.407 37 6.200 65 3.529
5 CoDeD 200.790 200.790 35 5.737 62 3.239

That was the lead my premade had early on. Bolded is the # of members in each tribe.

A lot of people would call the caliber of player in PG or Fleeto as being near the "skill cap". Sorry, no. If you're at the skill cap you're not having your growth tripled by other players.
 
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DeletedUser14312

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Very nice!
The skill cap may be higher than many think but it's still not high compared to how it is in many other games. I've seen new players pop up, and just on their second world they will be up there in the top beating some of the best players. So my point remains, activity means more here than skills. Doesn't matter how good you are, if you lack activity you will never be successful. If it is the other way around, a decent player may still come far because of great activity.
 

DeletedUser14405

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Not the same at all.

uk10 Pandas was rank 1 with 14 members while rank 2 had 39 members. It was obviously out of the league of every tribe on its world by a staggering margin.

It'd be like Poker dismissing 6 members, and then still being larger than Smash and DO! combined by roughly 10-20%.

And with Rumble, every single player in the top 20 of the world was in Rumble early on.

You're talking tribes marginally better than every other tribe on a world or area.

I'm talking two tribes that were at least 2-3 times better than any other tribes to ever play the server.
 

DeletedUser14467

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I think the skillcap is also much, much, higher than most people realize.

There's lots of people well below the cap that think they're actually at it.

I don't agree. Tribalwars is pretty learnable. If you have tried halo 3 on legendary mode. Then you know what a high skillcap is :D

But to stay on topic, there's also a lot of luck involved. For example locationwise. So mediumly experienced players can easily outrule some very experienced players if they have decent leadership
 

Nauzhror

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A singleplayer mode on a fps is not a high skillcap.
Any online game is going to be significantly higher.

I can definitively state that the skillcap on TW is much higher than people who haven't even come close to approaching it think it is.

I've played SC II competitively for a few years now, I frequently promote into Grandmaster, and then demote back to Master.

I do not think TW's skillcap is higher than SC II's, not even close. In SC II low GM's get roflstomped still by the professional players, but I think reaching the skillcap in TW is likely as hard, if not harder, than reaching GM is in SC II.

Luck also, plays a very minimal role in TW. Bad players blame luck for their failure at adapting. Good players don't take what's given to them, they force their area to submit to them.
 

DeletedUser14467

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The top differs the dedicated from the less dedicated. It's more a matter of time to get an understanding of the game but I would not call it hard. I won't say it's easy to be a top player. But a lot of it comes down to having strategic insight, the amount of risk you take etc. Most of the other stuff is just experience and testing what you think works best.
Why do you think it's so hard to reach the TW skillcap to call yourself a pro? As you said earlier there are plenty of people who only reach a top spot once and fail to do so consecutively. But tribalwars is quite a time-consuming game in the sense that it sometimes requires high activity on some unwanted moments. It may appear as if there are only a few of those people who reach the top over and over, but I think a lot of the top players just only really tried a couple of times (at least from the people I know).
 

Nauzhror

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Why do you think it's so hard to reach the TW skillcap to call yourself a pro?

I'd never use the word pro for one, a pro gets paid to play. SC II has pros, TW does not.

But I've personally played with many people that thought they were at the skillcap, they thought they were the cream of the crop. I was then able to teach them all sorts of things, which made them realize how wrong they were.

First example that comes to mind is Abdo. Abso was rank 1 till around 11 million points on uk1. He thought he was as good as players got. He scoffed at myself and others when we said startup took more technical skill than lategame. He told us it was nothing but activity and that to prove it he'd play super actively on uk7 and show us that there was nothing special about the way we played.

He joined uk7, and was rank 3, but rank 3 on that particular world was miles behind rank 1 and 2, which was myself and Cory. We were the two people he claimed were nothing special. After uk7 his entire tune changed, he acknowledged he was as active, if not more active, than we were. He also acknowledged that he didn't know as much about the game as he thought he did and overall he turned into a much humbler player.

1 Tyranny TuToR 4.078 1 4078
2 Temporary TuToR 4.031 1 4031
3 Locutas of Borg RaGe 3.459 2 1730
4 Abdo TuToR 2.994 1 2994
5 Ruffus G~T 2.804 1 2804
6 xXSaintXx TuToR 2.640 1 2640
7 Just-me TuToR 2.583 1 2583
8 Ifarmyourhidingplace? TuToR 2.514 1 2514
9 GIXXER RaGe 2.375 1 2375
10 DubbyTheMule KnK 2.314 1 2314


Abdo was rank 3 for most of that worlds 1 village stage, he got passed by Locutas of Borg because Locutas noble rushed (a horrible, awful noble rush at that).
Rank 3 normally sounds great, but not when you're over 1,000 points behind rank 2.


I think it's fairly easy to become "good" at TW. I do not think it is nearly as easy to make the climb from "good" to "great" or, depending on your ideas of what "great" is, from "great" to "cream of the crop".

If I call someone great they're fantastic, they belong in a discussion of the best players to ever play, but that's probably not what most people mean by "great".

ie. Abdo on uk7 was to me a good player, he was not what I'd deem great.

To most people, sure, rank 3 is great.

GIXXER is a similar story, boasted and bragged nonstop about how great he was. When the top accounts in my tribe were reaching level 30 farm, he had a 24 farm.

For the mathematically challenged: A 24 farm has 38.5625% the population capacity of a 30 farm. No player worthy of being called great is ever going to have a 24 farm when someone else has a 30.

Our top players had level 30 farms in 3-4 villages by the time GIXXER built his 30 farm. Yet he consistently tried to talk and act like he was some kind of amazing player sent to tribalwars by god.

Example of GIXXER:

https://forum.tribalwars.co.uk/index.php?threads/hauls-and-plunders.20997/page-6

He claims he started co-ing an account 4 days ago, this is 12 days into the world. He wants to be given 8 days leeway as such to "catch us" despite the fact the accunt obviously wasn't 26 points when began co-ing it, and it wasn't troopless. But hell, I'll play along and let him "cheat", since he still loses. On November 25th on the next page I reference having 1085 lc. On December 5th he says he's now hit 1000 lc. That's 10 days later.

So, I hit 1085 lc in 13 days. GIXXER has 1,000 lc in 23 days. He claims the account wasn't co-played for the first 8 days, but even then we're comparing 8 days of soloing + 15 of co-playing vs. me at 13 days with still 10% more troops.

Please do note, I really am not claiming to be the best player - I'm not. There are people I recognize as being better than me. I am however very much arguing that there are lots of people that think they've reached the skillcap in this game when the reality is that they're not even close.

What I am, is close enough to judge who else is as close as I am.

It's the dunning-kruger effect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which low-ability individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability as much higher than it really is.

Research also suggests corollaries: high-ability individuals may underestimate their relative competence and may erroneously assume that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others.

Dunning and Kruger have postulated that the effect is the result of internal illusion in those of low ability and external misperception in those of high ability: "The miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others."

This pattern of over-estimating competence was seen in studies of skills as diverse as reading comprehension, practicing medicine, operating a motor vehicle, and playing games such as chess or tennis. Dunning and Kruger proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:

fail to recognize their own lack of skill
fail to recognize the extent of their inadequacy
fail to accurately gauge skill in others
recognize and acknowledge their own lack of skill only after they are exposed to training for that skill
 
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DeletedUser14054

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Without reading the entire rant above ^^

Just like to put my 2 cents in.

As someone who has played this game for over a decade and has won multiple worlds across .net and uk.. This is my view on this entire topic:

First of all, TW is less skill and more about knowledge, decision making, risking and most importantly player communication as well as who you chose to be on your side! Lets not forget this is a team game, and it's not all about how well YOU as a player can perform, and more about how well you can play with others!

I have met many great players who knew exactly what they are doing... but their attitude alone lead to their demise.

TW doesn't take much skill these days... most of this skill comes from spamming farm assistant and spending your whole day on the game if you got nothing better to do with life.

What really matters in this game is, how well you can manipulate things in your favour! Yes, things like where and how you start plays a role... but even if you started off well, rolled over everyone your ability as a single player is still limited... So no point going on and on about a single player skill cap in this game... as no matter how great of a player you think you are, I am willing to place any money that cannot take a top tribe by yourself, and you not going to keep a top spot in the world without a good tribe.

This is what this game is more about- who you have on your team, and how well you can play together, as well as what kind of choices you make, rather than a single player skill cap! I would take in players with good attitude and the right mindset over players who think they are "Cream of the crop" and "Reaching skill cap".
 

Nauzhror

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I don't really think we disagree. I've never stated that a successful tribe is one containing nothing but "top" players.

I only commented at all because someone claimed that judging skill was impossible. It's not.

This though:

First of all, TW is less skill and more about knowledge, decision making, risking and most importantly player communication as well as who you chose to be on your side!

You're saying it's not about skill, it's about "this stuff".

I'd consider "this stuff" to be a skill.
 

DeletedUser14054

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I don't really think we disagree. I've never stated that a successful tribe is one containing nothing but "top" players.

I only commented at all because someone claimed that judging skill was impossible. It's not.

This though:



You're saying it's not about skill, it's about "this stuff".

I'd consider "this stuff" to be a skill.

Things like snipe, back time would be classed as skill.. Things like knowing game mechanics and how to communicate with players is knowledge.
 

the minx

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Personally I think there are a lot of factors that go into 'what makes a good tribe, or a good player' To start, it depends on which part of the game a player really is really good at, theres those that smash the competition at start up, but get bored and fizzle out at mid/late game, then theres those like me that really pick up at mid/late game. Skill does come into play in all areas of the game, at startup its about taking out those threats around you and securing your area, later in the game its mostly timing, timing attacks, timing support, sniping, recapping, most things which aren't very hard, but require focus and time. Activity is key, and you'll see some of those players who flourished in earlier worlds, not doing as well in recent worlds due to rl being a lot busier for them, and the opposite, some people who never played very well, becoming some of the top players. Area is also a big factor, if you're surrounded by tribemates and nap/allied tribes, its going to be hard to grow unless you relocate. The tribe itself is of course a big factor as well, if your tribemates don't know what they're doing, they are bound to fail. Sometimes though, you get lucky and have a good mix of startup and mid/late game players, and those startup pros help those who are struggling to grow. Then another big factor is politics. Having a good ally onside is always a plus. But it seems every world as of late theres those who resort to the lowest forms to get ahead... yes I mean spies. UK worlds are so small lately, everyone knows everyone, and info seems to leak from the most unsuspecting people, some doing it without even realizing they're passing info and think they're just having a friendly chat or banter.
 

Nauzhror

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Things like snipe, back time would be classed as skill.. Things like knowing game mechanics and how to communicate with players is knowledge.

I don't agree with that at all.

The definition of skill is: the ability to do something well; expertise.

You can't be highly skilled if you lack knowledge. There's also a ton of skill involved in applying that knowledge.

The things you call "skill" are the easy part. I could teach anyone to time, very quickly, it would not make them a good player.
 
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