W1 victory conditions

[DeletedUser]

Frankly this response deserves ripping apart but I'll try to be civil about it.

The Question put to us:-
-----------------------------------------------
Survey: Do you want a win condition set? (UK1)

Yes
No
-----------------------------------------------

Now as I've already stated and for some reason you cant comprehend this is WHO will choose it or WHAT will the condition be.

Your right I didn't comprehend what you just said...:icon_confused:

However, the WHO will choose if they wanted a win condition or not would be the UK1 Players...hence the vote. The WHAT conditions would have likely come later as a vote if the prior were approved. When you think way to far ahead and try to make things more complex then they actually are then...well you get what happened with this vote. Anyways that is what I assume you meant by the above response?

Frankly I dont want Admins whether ingame or Forum having any say on how the the first world on this server ends, I've played this for 2+ years and thus like many here feel we should have a say how it ends.

What?! There was a vote about it lol, the Admins didn't choose it or have a say so about it, you guys did :icon_wink:

The question put to us was LAME. I mean come on there is no detail, no structure, no terms, the question COULD and SHOULD have been worded alot better.

Well yea if you wanted to have a poll about if win conditions were going to be implemented and what those win conditions were. However that was making it more complex then the poll actually was. Obviously it was JUST to see if players wanted a win condition or not...The question wasn't lame, structure and detail on a yes no question is a moot point, and terms wouldn't have been included since it WASN'T about which win conditions were going to be put into place, but if you as a world even wanted them. Baby steps Bask...again this is you making it more complicated then it needed to be.

Oh to put it into context for you which might make it easier....
----------------------------

Do you want £250,000?

Yes
No

----------------------------

Easy question no confusion correct??

Now because I gave no detail, by voting yes YOU give me your voice that you want £250,000, HOWEVER I didnt tell you what you had to do or what it would require to get that £250,000 did I? BUT the vote stands, and by the EULA/Rules I have, means I can now do as I wish!

Far fetched I know, BUT as there was no detail NO way will I vote yes to something like that.

This is where you are wrong. If you base this on the vote that took place, then everyone would vote no because it never said what we'd have to do for the money, or if we were getting cash or a check, big bills or small, all coins? Or any number of ridiculous ideas you could add onto that. Now not basing on making your particular vote more complicated then it has to be, then the general vote would be yes, we'd want the money. Now if we had to do something for the money, then hopefully you'd put out another vote on what the general public would want to do for the money. Doesn't mean you can just force whoever voted yes to do as you wish lol as there is no contractual obligations set into place for the vote.

 

[DeletedUser]

Like you said we the players will decide not admins who are not in game!

Think it would have been more beneficial for an In game admins to have joined the debate rather than those who are not.

 

[DeletedUser]

As per usual a nonsense reply I expect to recieve from the Admin here, completely bypassing the point being made.

Your right I didn't comprehend what you just said...:icon_confused:

However, the WHO will choose if they wanted a win condition or not would be the UK1 Players...hence the vote. The WHAT conditions would have likely come later as a vote if the prior were approved. When you think way to far ahead and try to make things more complex then they actually are then...well you get what happened with this vote. Anyways that is what I assume you meant by the above response?

Even you are confused in you reply!! I highlight the bit in BOLD. EVEN you had no 100% knowledge that this would have happened! Why is that??

Perhaps because the question didnt give us that information?

The mere fact we might have wanted a win condition is irrelevant if we dont know the terms of it. As the bolded bit points out, without US knowing IF the conditions would come by vote from a list to be picked by us the players OR if the list was given by TW OR even if fact this was a one time only vote (as has since been learned), why would we blindly vote yes?

A simple addition such as "Do you want a win condition set (UK1)? Upon a majority yes vote a further poll will be released giving you chance to choose what that is from, a) a list chosen by TW, b) a list chosen by you the players." (Remove A or B from comment as applicable)

Yes
No

Oh look how simple is that... 1 additional sentence

What?! There was a vote about it lol, the Admins didn't choose it or have a say so about it, you guys did :icon_wink:

A moot comment and aswered by the previous para.

Well yea if you wanted to have a poll about if win conditions were going to be implemented and what those win conditions were. However that was making it more complex then the poll actually was. Obviously it was JUST to see if players wanted a win condition or not...The question wasn't lame, structure and detail on a yes no question is a moot point, and terms wouldn't have been included since it WASN'T about which win conditions were going to be put into place, but if you as a world even wanted them. Baby steps Bask...again this is you making it more complicated then it needed to be.

See Para 1 again, notice a pattern here?

Bypassing the WHOLE issue.

Spoiler: (Hidden as falling into same trap of being drawn off the POINT and adding new scenarios possibly further complicating matters)

This is where you are wrong. If you base this on the vote that took place, then everyone would vote no because it never said what we'd have to do for the money, or if we were getting cash or a check, big bills or small, all coins? Or any number of ridiculous ideas you could add onto that. Now not basing on making your particular vote more complicated then it has to be, then the general vote would be yes, we'd want the money. Now if we had to do something for the money, then hopefully you'd put out another vote on what the general public would want to do for the money. Doesn't mean you can just force whoever voted yes to do as you wish lol as there is no contractual obligations set into place for the vote.

Bolded again.

Incorrect, without knowing what I'm saying YES too I would never vote yes to that. Just the same as I wouldnt sign a finance agreement or important document without reading it and the small print before I signed it.

Just look at the comments in this thread and you can see others also agree, whether they voted NO or not I dont know, BUT I guarentee not everyone would vote YES to that.

Others had personal motives for saying NO, Others YES, its the Middle ground that could have swung this vote either way and the mere fact of this little element of confusion (although you claim it not to be) may have caused them to vote NO rather than yes.

Now will you actually address the ISSUE I go on about? Or just bypass the comments made about the LACK of information more than the technical side of it?

A SIMPLE one line addition was all that would have been needed... and please dont try to say that one line I used would confuse matters, it certain makes things ALOT clearer than the effort we were given!

I already await the responce bypassing the issue

 

[DeletedUser]

The WHAT conditions would have likely come later as a vote if the prior were approved. When you think way to far ahead and try to make things more complex then they actually are then...well you get what happened with this vote.

Exactly the point! Where was that communicated? Certainly not in the original question. But that isn't thinking ahead now, is it?

J68, granted the vote put a simple question forward with the outcome either being "yes" or "no" but there's ambiguity because no one knew whether it was a definitive vote? i.e. If the overall vote was yes, would win conditions be implemented straight away? That was not communicated.

There was nothing to say that if you voted "yes" win conditions wouldn't automatically be put in place or if there would be secondary vote. Or was this always designed to be just one vote with no further thought required as to the outcome?

It has to be a case of thinking ahead because the answer inevitably leads to another scenario and is not an isolated question.

Perhaps something like:

"Do you want win conditions?

Yes or No

NOTE:
If the outcome of this vote is positive, a second vote will be cast to determine what the win conditions will be.
If the outcome of this vote is negative, there will not be another vote until x amount of players are left in the world.

Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.

 

[DeletedUser]

Bask beat me to it :lol:

 

[DeletedUser]

BTW when does this vote end btw

 

[DeletedUser]

It's over already. Sank without a trace :icon_biggrin:

 

[DeletedUser]

Sorry what I should have said was when do we hear if there is a next stage or not!

Or did the No vote just win!

 

[DeletedUser]

Don't think there will be. Looks like the "No" vote played out but looks like we'll just have to speculate about that...or did I miss the informative announcement?

 

[DeletedUser]

:lol: As said before these are just my thoughts and opinions as a player, not an in-game admin...because I am not one. I don't care about in-game affairs I've played too long to worry about them, hence why I am not an in-game admin. These are my views and thoughts as a bystander/viewer of these forums, raging over my opinion is quite humorous. Making mountains out of mole hills. As was said by a few people, even those with different views than my own in this thread, it was a vote on if a win condition was wanted by the populace. Not voting or voting "no" because you didn't know IF win conditions would be added straight away, WHAT the win conditions were, WHEN they were to be implemented, HOW they would be implemented WASN'T what the vote was about. You over complicated it, which is really your own fault, not anyone in-game who gave you all the choice.

 

[DeletedUser]

And above we have the usual nonsense we can expect from an Admin.... Same as always I see.

Is there little wonder half the forums are dead....

Yet again as with EVERY post you've made here you skirt round the issue and bore us with your retorical nonsense.

I believe the common word they use is Troll? Oh wait your an Admin, surely you wouldnt do that

Just after reviewing this thread, I'd thought I'd add in my 2 cents. Keep in mind that I'm not an In-Game admin and have no say-so over what in-game affairs are, these are just my opinions and thoughts...

Secondly, complaining that there was confusion on a yes or no vote for a win condition with the only basis being that there was no option to choose a win condition is quite frankly absurd. Why would any win condition options be put into a yes or no vote on if people wanted win conditions or not? The vote WASN'T about which win conditions were generally wanted, it was about if anyone wanted win conditions. Honestly if there were a ton options on the vote asking if players wanted win conditions AND choices for win conditions in the same vote, I can guarantee that there would have been alot more confusion and actual grounds to complain about it.

As with everyone your entitled to an opinion although unlike us you dont recieve warnings.

However going back to your initial post, if you wish to add an opinion to a thread PERHAPS you could actually keep in context with the thread which was about OUR opinions on the Poll.

You gave your opinion, but then openly slated others as absurd.

Yet when answered back, you skirt around OUR entire opinion and try to confuse the matter further WITHOUT actually addressing the issue we have all commented and raised!

IF you cannot address the ACTUAL issue highlighted in the thread (which by the way is mentioned in the OP). Then please refrain from derailing this thread further.

Oh look at that I'm doing your job for you...

 

[DeletedUser]

Not voting or voting "no" because you didn't know IF win conditions would be added straight away, WHAT the win conditions were, WHEN they were to be implemented, HOW they would be implemented WASN'T what the vote was about. You over complicated it, which is really your own fault, not anyone in-game who gave you all the choice.

It's probably for the best you aren't an in-game admin because you seem:

a) Horrendously short-sighted
b) Stubbornly ignorant.

If you can't see how additional clarification or context would have been helpful to the many players who seemed to have been confused by a needlessly ambiguous mechanic - who have openly questioned it here and requested some clarification that is still not forthcoming - it amazes me you've got any sort of "responsibility".

Instead of getting an answer from someone who can give it, we have to deal with you. Here's an idea: maybe take what you've seen on the forums - your job? - and work with an in-game admin to help deliver a response to the questions players are asking?

See, that would be helpful and constructive...

 

[DeletedUser589]

:lol: As said before these are just my thoughts and opinions as a player, not an in-game admin...because I am not one. I don't care about in-game affairs I've played too long to worry about them, hence why I am not an in-game admin. These are my views and thoughts as a bystander/viewer of these forums, raging over my opinion is quite humorous. Making mountains out of mole hills. As was said by a few people, even those with different views than my own in this thread, it was a vote on if a win condition was wanted by the populace. Not voting or voting "no" because you didn't know IF win conditions would be added straight away, WHAT the win conditions were, WHEN they were to be implemented, HOW they would be implemented WASN'T what the vote was about. You over complicated it, which is really your own fault, not anyone in-game who gave you all the choice.

You are an idiot, please see your above post for verification on my opinion!

 

[DeletedUser]

Is there little wonder half the forums are dead...

No not really :lol: When some one posts, as a player and a visitor of these forums and they get responses like what you and others gave....no it isn't a wonder. But then again what can you expect from someone who knows everything and think they are super cool an l33t because they are doing ok in one world?

And luke, care to point something out or are you just going to have the usual drivel of "I'm awesome and my word is law because of a forgotten world that I'm just so uber in"? Just a warning though, watch your wording. I only came here and gave my thoughts and opinions, a few others including yourself on the other hand don't seem capable of doing anything more than acting like you are 5

This I took to be a discussion, not a flame fest because people were "confused" and the top dogs didn't get what they wanted. Nor was it to be communication from an "admin"...as I made clear in my first post.

Added: In reply to basks and others comments:

or is the poll a little flawed as we dont know what the victory condition would be? (another poll for that maybe?)

I'm assuming Bask this is what you meant in terms of your "post" of:
"IF you cannot address the ACTUAL issue highlighted in the thread (which by the way is mentioned in the OP). Then please refrain from derailing this thread further."?

Then your answer is simply that...The victory condition WASN'T a part of the poll, it was if you guys wanted it. I understnad that your "plan" may have backfired, but to rage about it on here is a bit silly don't you think? Again....the poll wasn't about WHAT/WHEN/WHERE/WHY/HOW/ the victory condition would be...its was simply if you all wanted one. The fact that you guys made it out to be more then it was is your own faults.

It's probably for the best you aren't an in-game admin because you seem:

a) Horrendously short-sighted
b) Stubbornly ignorant.

Meh however you want to look at it is your digression. I don't want to be in-game admin...so I'm not. Because I didn't answer something (AS A POSTER/VIEWER OF THESE FORUMS AND NOT AS AN ADMIN...AGAIN, LIKE I SAID IN THE FIRST POST) to your liking, is really of no concern to me. Like I said, however you want to look at it :icon_razz:

 

[DeletedUser]

Brilliant, a selective forum admin who picks and chooses the posts he deems necessary to respond to as either an admin or a user. Good to see the standards are as high and consistent as ever.

So again: is it beyond your means to mention this thread to an in-game admin to comment on or is that beyond the scope of your role?

Surely in your role as a forum admin this is part of the job description? To take the conversation and/or issues on the forums and see if it can be answered?

For the record, I actually forgot about the whole vote because it was once again horribly handled. It's not a case of anyone not getting their way but raising the question as Chris did. The fact a number of players raised the same question would suggest it wasn't just isolated to those who voted yes (Bask stated he voted no if you'd care to read) but because that seems a redundant point to you and your attitude is as venomous as anyone's, you're getting slated.

Regardless of whether you're responding as a player or an admin, should you not try and set a standard either way as one of the "guardians" of the forums?

That you've supposedly stooped to our level is a sadder reflection on you.

 

[DeletedUser]

No not really :lol: When some one posts, as a player and a visitor of these forums and they get responses like what you and others gave....no it isn't a wonder. But then again what can you expect from someone who knows everything and think they are super cool an l33t because they are doing ok in one world?

And luke, care to point something out or are you just going to have the usual drivel of "I'm awesome and my word is law because of a forgotten world that I'm just so uber in"? Just a warning though, watch your wording. I only came here and gave my thoughts and opinions, a few others including yourself on the other hand don't seem capable of doing anything more than acting like you are 5

This I took to be a discussion, not a flame fest because people were "confused" and the top dogs didn't get what they wanted. Nor was it to be communication from an "admin"...as I made clear in my first post.

OH dear Jp, you want to take it down to that level now?

Please post anywhere where I stated I know everything or super cool, or infact doing ok on W1. If you bothered to do any research you'll notice I'm rank 70 on W1 which infact is pretty poor at this stage and had I been doing ok I'd be alot higher than that.

The fact your resorting to comments like this, shows one thing.... immaturity.

You go on about giving your "opinion" which as I stated before is fine, we are ALL entitled to opinion however UNLESS your able to actually reply back to what people are writing WITHOUT sarcastic comments OR in fact selectively choosing to answer only parts of peoples posts to answer, your simply here to flame and Troll.

Now that we have picked your post apart, AS will happen with anyones opinion, you see your trapped into a corner and resort to using comments such as the one bolded to try and get yourself out of it, a very immature and defensive response.

When you can actually come back with a mature and structured post answering the issue and not selective parts please do.

One further thing, PERHAPS again you should research before you start replying, to say the forums are dead partly to the replies I give is humorous, since joining the forum in 2009, I've made a a Grand Total of 67 posts! You on the other hand over 1,400.....

I'm sure my 67 posts has NOTHING to do with driving anyone away other than people who simply cant have a discussion at end.

Added: In reply to basks and others comments:


I'm assuming Bask this is what you meant in terms of your "post" of:
"IF you cannot address the ACTUAL issue highlighted in the thread (which by the way is mentioned in the OP). Then please refrain from derailing this thread further."?

Then your answer is simply that...The victory condition WASN'T a part of the poll, it was if you guys wanted it. I understnad that your "plan" may have backfired, but to rage about it on here is a bit silly don't you think? Again....the poll wasn't about WHAT/WHEN/WHERE/WHY/HOW/ the victory condition would be...its was simply if you all wanted one. The fact that you guys made it out to be more then it was is your own faults.

First off... My Plan? Again RESEARCH before you reply! I'm a member of T4H, which as the stats clearly show are losing in thier war to W1N, thus it is highly unlikely I will be here come victory time. So my comments about a confusing poll have NO bias. And has Reef has pointed out, in my early post I actually stated I voted NO.

Oh dear JP failing to grasp it arent you?

The OP posted:-

"or is the poll a little flawed as we dont know what the victory condition would be?"

Notice the question mark.... This therefore put a question to the community which then in my first post I gave my opinion....

"Personally for me the Survey isnt at all clear as to what were voting for, "Yes" its for win conditions, BUT do TW pick the condition, will the players pick it based on options provided by TW, is this the only chance we get to vote...."

Notice that I know the survey is for win conditions? but that I question (and further do in the post) the lack of information in the survey question put to us? The very thing ALL my posts and opinions have been going on about and that you have on evry occasion averted to acknowledge...

Now again as Reef has highlighted, I too hadnt given this poll a second thought until your reply, Tracey had answered my board mail giving me at least a half decent and thought out reponse even though it still wouldnt allow the poll to be redone.

As a troll you've managed to drag this thread off topic and into a flame war, congrats on that. I guess we'll all now recieve and infraction, the thread locked etc etc.

 

[DeletedUser717]

vBulletin Message
Sorry jp68plus1 is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.

A shame, really.

 

[DeletedUser]

Once again TW staff get a vote and its mechanics wrong then pass the buck onto the players.

Glad to see some things never change!

It was simple really....

"Do you want a win condition for UK1?"

YES
or
NO

"The win condition will be chosen by the players at the end of the vote from a list of options put forward by the players"

As Basky has already said.....it was THAT easy.

But the staff obviously cannot do easy or simple.

Lets wait another 2 years for another faulty vote to be placed on our surveys screen!

 

[DeletedUser]

Oh dear me I'm getting ganged by the W1N team :lol:

Again I'm being attacked because I'm an Admin and should be able to do something about it...and again I'll say you are wrong. I just oversee the forums, not in-game affairs.

Again, the poll was simple, it asked if the general community of UK1 wanted a win condition...I don't understand what was so hard about that. Regardless of what you "feel" should have been included or not is of no consequence, because there will ALWAYS be a problem for someone who doesn't get their way.

Now as an Admin of these forums:

Since obviously we can't have a decent conversation, this thread will be closed as I don't want to have to hand out infractions to anyone here because of childish flaming. Making another thread about this vote will not turn out well.

What I can offer you (UK1):
If the simple Yes/No vote was that much of an issue, then I suggest the leaders of each of the dominate tribes talk with their players, get a general consensus on a vote, then the leaders can send in a support ticket (politely and respectfully) requesting a new vote based on what the tribal decision was. It will likely be put through, all what needs to be done is asking and not constantly complaining. This is a game after all ladies and gents.