Ageism

[DeletedUser]

OK. Now some of you have a lot of varied views on this but I'd like to bring it up:

Spoiler: Example

Radarr... You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. You're moaning about EMA - Which is something you don't get.
Your friends are too young to even get jobs, as are you.

Quite frankly you're a muppet, a bit of an attention seeker. So... instead of trying to argue something which you know nothing about, why don't you do something kids do these days? I dunno play with lego, and leave the Big-Boy discussions to the Big Boys.

'cos you're getting on my nerves now kid.

/Any reply by you to this will just be ignored.

FYI, read the rest of that thread and you'll see I was putting up a valid argument and my previous post have now just been ignored because i'm not a "big boy".


I personally find Ageism extremely annoying, unfair and it's a form of stereotyping - your views?

 

[DeletedUser]

Huh I actualy found that post offensive :/

But I agree with you, and its not something that gets picked up on these days, not as much as say sexism e.t.c.

Everyone is entittled to thier views and opinions, they may be wrong and other people may not agree with them but there your views and opinions and regardless of what age you are you'v got that right to air them.

Especcially alot of older people(not a dig at them ) are under the impression we still live back in the victorian ages where young people were 'seen and not heard' and still think they 'Know best for children'

Anyway I hope u posted a reply to Matt :icon_cool:

 

[DeletedUser613]

It was more that you weren't actually able to get it yet and wouldn't have experienced EMA

 

[DeletedUser]

It was more that you weren't actually able to get it yet and wouldn't have experienced EMA

I havn't experienced racism...but yet I still moan about how its wrong.

 

[DeletedUser613]

What are you talking about? your saying ema is wrong?

 

[DeletedUser613]

If you have't actually experienced something you can still have an opinion on it, it just makes it less valid.

 

[DeletedUser6695]

Kinda like the mod jobs... I'd love to be a mod but I'm under 21

 

[DeletedUser]

If you have't actually experienced something you can still have an opinion on it, it just makes it less valid.

Imo thats very backwads thinking towards opinions, how so does it make it less valid if you have not experienced it?

Do you think alot of people in high places, say the goverment, have ever experienced poverty ? BUt yet they still have a view and opinion on what changes can be made to diminish it. Does that make there view less valid?

 

[DeletedUser613]

Imo thats very backwads thinking towards opinions, how so does it make it less valid if you have not experienced it?

Do you think alot of people in high places, say the goverment, have ever experienced poverty ? BUt yet they still have a view and opinion on what changes can be made to diminish it. Does that make there view less valid?

It makes their view less valid than somebody who is in poverty because they have less experience to back up what they are saying. This is why they get opinions of people who have experienced it

Its not really backward, opinions backed up by fact- past experiences are usually more valid than ones that aren't.

 

[DeletedUser613]

Kinda like the mod jobs... I'd love to be a mod but I'm under 21

weird, its only 16 on .net

 

[DeletedUser]

It makes their view less valid than somebody who is in poverty because they have less experience to back up what they are saying. This is why they get opinions of people who have experienced it

Its not really backward, opinions backed up by fact- past experiences are usually more valid than ones that aren't.

I see what your saying, but yet it does not make sense to me, and when have you ever heard of people that high up going out and speaking to people in poverty ? very rarely.


No opinions are not 'backed up' by facts or past experience, regardless of what facts or experience you should respect everyones opinion regardless of things like age, race, gender e.t.c.....as I said people may not agree with it, it could be wrong, but it is still there opinion and are just as entittled to air that opinion as anyone else.


As I said I have a strong opinion on raceism, yet i have never experienced it nor do I know any facts about it......does that make my view on it un-valid?

 

[DeletedUser3312]

Heh. Okay Radarr... You've got my attention. Your attention seeking skills are far better than mine.

Thx for not posting the full story, I'll fill in the holes

 

[DeletedUser613]

I see what your saying, but yet it does not make sense to me, and when have you ever heard of people that high up going out and speaking to people in poverty ? very rarely.


No opinions are not 'backed up' by facts or past experience, regardless of what facts or experience you should respect everyones opinion regardless of things like age, race, gender e.t.c.....as I said people may not agree with it, it could be wrong, but it is still there opinion and are just as entittled to air that opinion as anyone else.


As I said I have a strong opinion on raceism, yet i have never experienced it nor do I know any facts about it......does that make my view on it un-valid?

Yes they do. This is something politicians make a habit of doing to make it seem like they are taking peoples views onboard.

If I say somebody is an idiot, randomly out of the blue. You would respect that opinion? Rather than somebody who says somebody is and idiot, and goes on to explain examples of when this person has been an idiot and whatnot.
They are entitled to their opinion, but opinions with something backing them up are considered more valid than those with nothing.

you don't know anything about racism and have never experienced it. So essentially you are saying " racism is bad" with no other information? Im pretty sure that makes your opinion less valid, considering most opinions are formed by some factors.
It doesn't mean racism isn't bad it just means you saying it with nothing else is going to mean people will disregard what you say.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes they do. This is something politicians make a habit of doing to make it seem like they are taking peoples views onboard.

If I say somebody is an idiot, randomly out of the blue. You would respect that opinion? Rather than somebody who says somebody is and idiot, and goes on to explain examples of when this person has been an idiot and whatnot.
They are entitled to their opinion, but opinions with something backing them up are considered more valid than those with nothing.

you don't know anything about racism and have never experienced it. So essentially you are saying " racism is bad" with no other information? Im pretty sure that makes your opinion less valid, considering most opinions are formed by some factors.
It doesn't mean racism isn't bad it just means you saying it with nothing else is going to mean people will disregard what you say.

Ok you find me an example of the goverment doing this, I'd say they rather more get given the facts from somebody else and not actualy doing it on thier own.

Yes I would respect that opinion regardless of if there was facts or not, i might not agree with it and it could be wrong but i would still respect that. ALthough I have been taught (Social Care course) to do respect others opinions and views.

Yes I am saying racism is bad and have no facts or experience to back it.
Your right! My opinion is based on racism is how I as brought up, influences around me i.e family, peer group, TV things like that.

Why should people dissregard what people say because no facts etc, I come across this in work all the time working with young people who are in or left the care system and the thing that pops up alot is how people like social workers, panel members dont let them get there say and make decisions for them.

 

[DeletedUser613]

Ok you find me an example of the goverment doing this, I'd say they rather more get given the facts from somebody else and not actualy doing it on thier own.

Yes I would respect that opinion regardless of if there was facts or not, i might not agree with it and it could be wrong but i would still respect that. ALthough I have been taught (Social Care course) to do respect others opinions and views.

Yes I am saying racism is bad and have no facts or experience to back it.
Your right! My opinion is based on racism is how I as brought up, influences around me i.e family, peer group, TV things like that.

Why should people dissregard what people say because no facts etc, I come across this in work all the time working with young people who are in or left the care system and the thing that pops up alot is how people like social workers, panel members dont let them get there say and make decisions for them.

Are you serious? In the runup to elections many politicians do this sort of things, to win votes really, I'm not saying they actually listen to anything.
So you respect an opinion that is based on absolutely nothing? So say I had an opinion *hypothetical* that "Jews will cause the world to end" you would respect it.
"My opinion is based on racism is how I as brought up, influences around me i.e family, peer group, TV things like that." IE: your experiences and influences. This is what I mean. The way you said it it's like saying Racism is bad and then having no reason for it.

That is a completely different issue :icon_neutral:. That is making decisions for them which is completely different from what we are talking about.

What im trying to say is, the more somebody explains why they have that opinion and if they show how they came to get it, it makes more people consider the opinion. Therefore more people will respect the opinion.

 

[DeletedUser3312]

I'll try and keep it short...


Okay guys, the thread is called EMA and we were asked to put our views.

Spoiler: .

Here was my first post:

EMA is stupid anyway. Get rid of it.

Dun like what I said?
GET A JOB

Those of you who get EMA will most likely disagree with me, those who don't will most likely agree with me. However, I back-up what I said later in the thread.

Here's the reply from Radarr, our local thread-creater:

That's an extremely ignorant point of view. They could get a job but they'd also have to pay for travel (and it's not bloody cheap!), certain books (neither are these!) and other necessities. Then what about food, rent etc.? Jobs are becoming harder and harder to get especially for younger people and even if they could get a job it could only be part-time and they'd have to keep up with there education while doing this.

Notice how he talks about rent, travel, and how part-time jobs are SO hard to get. First hand experience right here... But then again how can EMA pay for food, travel rent and books? How can it?

So I questioned this. After he did some simple maths, he worked out it couldn't:
Surprise surprise.. Somethings fishy 'ere :icon_rolleyes:

Spoiler: .

Value food? Extremely cheap.
Travel? No, it probably wouldn't cover this with the other things (and in some places altogether!) but it would help.
Rent? Put £10 a-side a week and you've got £40 a month - the rest you can get from a part-time job. (My parents will charge me £100 rent when I go into College.)

So, at this point... I'm thinking, this guy is talking out of his ass. He hasn't got a scooby what goes on in the life of a student.

And this was proven. Uh-hum... By someone else:

And Radarr, you're 14, what are you worrying about? Getting a paper round is easy :/

And then finally admitted later by him.

So you know, at this point I'm pretty annoyed. This kid (And I don't use this word loosely) is trying to dictate to me (A student) what the life of a student IS like.

Spoiler: .

My reply:

This kid is 14?
EMA doesn't even affect him!

/argument over. Come back when you've actually experienced what you're trying to argue about.

Yet, he still persists, though this time trying to assume the way I live (An actual student) and how I have no clue on how other students live:

From your attitude and the way you're coming across

I'm sorry, it seems you live on a lovely paradise of harmony where your parents cover all your needs and you just spend your earn't money on luxuries but some of us can't live like that.

You really have no clue how hard life is for some people, do you?

Maybe you're just ignorant of the truth.

Those who know me, KNOW I don't stick around for BS. His drastic attempts to save his argument was that:

Spoiler: .

"He has a lot of friends who are in college"

And in relation to the job:

I had a saturday job. I don't anymore.

You know... These are a couple of holes in his story. Firstly, college people do not "hang around" with 14 year old kids. That just doesn't happen. Secondly, employers can not employ people under the age of 16 (Unless it's a paper round) but we already know that's not the case:

Getting a paper round is easy? since when? Why did no-one tell me about this?! :icon_rolleyes:

So lets recap here on this apparent "ageism":

Spoiler: .

- This kid isn't even in college
- He's not old enough to be employed
- The information he's getting from "a lot of friends" isn't first-hand.
- He's tried to assume the way college students live
- And I personally think he's been lieing on a few things.

Though lets not just look here:

- He's an attention seeker. Holds what, like half the threads in this forum
- He likes to make everything public. Appearance means lots to younglins these days
- He stropped when I said I wasn't going to argue with him anymore (Look at this thread)
- Lets not forget how he blatantly didn't post the whole argument just to suit his own point.

So my end opinion after ALL this remains the same.
Radarr you're an attention seeking little boy.​

My personal views on ageism:
I'm completely against it. Nobody should be discriminated against due to their age. Though what I am against is people, who haven't a clue what they're talking about resort to these... petty accusations to suit their argument. If you know what you're talking about, fair enough I will take the time to debate with you. If what you're trying to argue doesn't affect you in any way possible, and you have no idea what you're talking about, then you're wasting my time and I will not give it to you. Fair enough? I think so.​

 

[DeletedUser]

Are you serious? In the runup to elections many politicians do this sort of things, to win votes really, I'm not saying they actually listen to anything.
So you respect an opinion that is based on absolutely nothing? So say I had an opinion *hypothetical* that "Jews will cause the world to end" you would respect it.
"My opinion is based on racism is how I as brought up, influences around me i.e family, peer group, TV things like that." IE: your experiences and influences. This is what I mean. The way you said it it's like saying Racism is bad and then having no reason for it.

That is a completely different issue :icon_neutral:. That is making decisions for them which is completely different from what we are talking about.

What im trying to say is, the more somebody explains why they have that opinion and if they show how they came to get it, it makes more people consider the opinion. Therefore more people will respect the opinion.

They do? I've never heard of it...which is why I asked for you to find me an example of it.

Yes sure, if you wanna think that then why should I care what you think. I may think it's wrong that you think that, and I may not agree with it but it would still be your opinion and youv got the right to say it.

No not my experiences, not in that context anyway me saying 'I have not experienced' it as in I have never been the victim of any form of racism :s, you sayd facts and experiences. I said my influences, which is diffrent from experiences and facts. I have no facts on it, I know none. So maybe what I think your saying is that its not just facts, and expereinces that can give us opinions?

No not really a much diffrent issue, as it relates to the thread, opinions on ageism, the fact those young people are not older and dnt get there say, gives impressions that those social workers and the likes dont think that young person should have an opinion or view on that matter.

Ok so for what you said last there, this whole conversation between us from the begining is all opinionated, I think you dont, you think you do sort of thing. But has any of us given any real facts or experiences on how an opinion has to be backed up for it to be more valid?? Not really because we both have diffrent opinions on it, therefore you might say u did, but I would say you didnt, you would say I didnt but I would say I did. So how do you actualy decifer who is 'right' or who has the most valid opinon?

 

[DeletedUser]

Mattflan .....Your whole post as ageist there.

You think his points are not valid because he is 14...very evident as you kept going back to his age.
Constantly having a dig at him for his age, and saying he knows nothing because of his age or that he is a kid is ageist :/

Regardless if he has or hasn't recieved or experienced EMA he is just as entittled ad you are to air his views and opinions on it...wether you like it or not.

 

[DeletedUser3312]

Mattflan .....Your whole post as ageist there.

You think his points are not valid because he is 14...very evident as you kept going back to his age.
Constantly having a dig at him for his age, and saying he knows nothing because of his age or that he is a kid is ageist :/

Regardless if he has or hasn't recieved or experienced EMA he is just as entittled ad you are to air his views and opinions on it...wether you like it or not.

So many mistakes in that post I barely understood what you were saying.
Though I think you're wrong. Google ageism, and understand it's meaning before you even try to get into an argument with me about it.

 

[DeletedUser]

So many mistakes in that post I barely understood what you were saying.
Though I think you're wrong. Google ageism, and understand it's meaning before you even try to get into an argument with me about it.

Mistkes in my post? What are you saying I am not 'litterate' enough to go against your argument :icon_rolleyes:

Heres n extract on ageism Matt...maybe you should read about it more thouroughly next time....

The term has also been used to describe prejudice and discrimination against adolescents and children, including ignoring their ideas because they are too young,

Your post clearly is going towards the fact he is only 14 and yet hasn't experienced EMA then his opinions or views on the matter are not valid. Ageism.......