A thought on coplaying, from InnoGames point of view...

[DeletedUser]

Firstly - coplaying seems to crop up in almost every thread so perhaps we can keep all discussions on it to here?

I'd like to take a minute to propose a scenario (bear with me...)
Taking Axes! as an example.

There are 50-60 players in Axes! with 20 accounts.
Lets say its 60 for a moment.
If co playing were un allowed / frowned upon by the community to a point where it didnt exist etc (Im not proposing a way of this being enforced, this scenario is hypothetical).
Some of these players would quit TW, with arguments along the lines of not enough time to do well. Some would also quit (perhaps temporarily) as a sign of protest. Some would stay but play less worlds (these players make up a minority of total players, so world numbers wouldnt drop significantly).
However many would stay, we all know we've spent many years playing this game and frankly we enjoy it.
Say for example half of those 60 players end up staying and solo playing accounts (I dont think thats an unreasonable guess but tell me if you disagree).
Thats 30 accounts.

Benefits:
Premium
These are all the kind of players that pay for premium. InnoGamees now has 30 accounts paying for premium instead of 20. Surely a good thing for InnoGames.

Competitiveness
The 30 players/accounts which remain wouldn't be quite as good (less time for farming etc). Note that Im not saying they'd be much worse... perhaps our top player would be 800 points instead of 1000.
There would be more accounts than could fit into one tribe.
These two facts would srely make the world more competitive?

Ive taken Axes! here as they provde the best example. Apply it to the other tribes in the top 10 too, which will have some coplayed accounts, and the effect is greater.

Discuss

PLEASE note that Im not arguing against coplaying, please dont flame/spam this thread. Im proposing a logical scenario hoping it will get some interesting feedback.

 

[DeletedUser]

Theres no way to enforce this soooo....

 

[DeletedUser]

No idea about your estimates of how many would quit / how premium would be effected. But.. "If co playing were un allowed / frowned upon by the community to a point where it didnt exist etc (Im not proposing a way of this being enforced, this scenario is hypothetical)"... isn't that the point - that there isn't really a way of making it anything other than hypothetical? I'd prefer it if there were no co-played accounts, much in the same way I'd prefer to live in a world without crime.

I don't really care about the unfairness. I can't compete for #1, but I can still have fun.

 

[DeletedUser]

i think you greatly exaggerate the amount of players in axes, not every account has 3 players, mine only has one.

I also think you all rely on the co playing excuse too much for you being sloppy players, it adds very little advantage to playing a world this slow, i find it easy enough to keep queues going overnight when i'm not online, when the "co-player" would kick in.
true they get to keep farming throughout the night, but i simply just pick it up in the morning.

i've had my account sat one night and i had been very inactive that day which would probably balance out at me being active in the day.

 

[DeletedUser]

Some people call co-playing cheating, why, cos they don't have someone to co-play with them and don't have the time to dedicate to the game due to rl.

Obviously having a co-player at startup is a massive advantage in the first week or so, but once you've started getting your queues going then co-playing accounts in my opinion have little advantage over solo accounts in regards to being able to farm/build/recruit.

If three players of equal experience began startup together, one account co-played 24/7 the other solo played 18hrs, then the former would have the advantage with there build for the first week or so after that things would start to level out and the advantages of having a co-played account over a solo played account would be basically down to not being caught of guard when an attack was sent at you.

Therefore I don't see co-played account to be disadvantageous to solo played accounts and thus don't ruin the game.

 

[DeletedUser]

i think you greatly exaggerate the amount of players in axes, not every account has 3 players, mine only has one.

You're more likely to know this than me so maybe I have.

What about there being 20 accounts played by 3 players in the top 5 tribes?
Applying what I said to more than just Axes! you could get another tribe full of experienced players, on similar points to the current top 5 tribes.

 

[DeletedUser]

Nice write up. I like that you thought all this out and posted it reasonably and logically. As for competition, I completely agree with what you said. Honestly if Axes coplayers had other accounts, we'd probably have another full tribe of exceptional players (Not saying axes are the only ones. I rather like a few of the current top 10 tribes).

Honestly I agree that sometimes co playing is done in excess and 4 players on one account is probably pushing the envelope, if it has not already broken it. However, as stated several times, co playing is a method to save time for the individual player and keep them competitive with players that are active close to 24/7. Albeit when experienced players do it, those accounts generally stick to the top 100.

We must still remember, co playing has it's disadvantages and personally I'm not a big fan of it. I would absolutely love to have my own account on this world and be able to solo like I used to. It's just with my current time constraints through the many trips I'm taking this summer and the fact that it is no longer possible for me to check TW while I am at school, my accounts will always be cleared and I will have to restart on the rim where normally I would dominate. I guarentee you that if you asked everyone in Axes why they co played, you will get a similar answer 90% of the time. We enjoy competition immensely after all.

As for How to lose Axes being almost 1000 points... He's a very very good player and knows how and when to construct the proper buildings and has a location that he controls and farms for a vast distance. Now your are probably correct, if he was not being co played then yes his score would most likely be about 100-200 points lower. However I don't think that would change the fact that he is thrashing everyone.

If co playing was frowned on by the community, then no one in axes would quit FYI, it's not prohibited by inno games verbally or actually. And then stated above, almost none of us have the time to solo this world. I cannot solo a world for about another year (Until University).

Once again Ubiz, thank you for your well thought out and logical post here. I understand your frustration about some of us complaining about lack of competition. So far I think there will be several tribes that will be able to compete with us effectively.

 

[Maggie Wallis]

It doesn't matter how often this is discussed... there is no way to stop co-playing..

 

[DeletedUser]

I also think you all rely on the co playing excuse too much for you being sloppy players, it adds very little advantage to playing a world this slow, i find it easy enough to keep queues going overnight when i'm not online, when the "co-player" would kick in.

- Im not trying to use it as an excuse for anything.

true they get to keep farming throughout the night, but i simply just pick it up in the morning.

- And you dont tink being able to farm through the night is a considerable advantage? Not being able to would slow down the growth of such players (from across the range of top tribes), making gaps smaller and the world more competitive.

i've had my account sat one night and i had been very inactive that day which would probably balance out at me being active in the day.

- What if you'd been active in the day and had a sitter in the night..? Would you be slightly more capable of comepting with the top players?

 

[DeletedUser]

It doesn't matter how often this is discussed... there is no way to stop co-playing..

Unfortunately I agree that there may not be.
Players not wishing to discuss a hypothetical situation - dont bother posting in this thread. Simple.
But before churches and paladins and archers came out people discussed the possibility of such things. What harm does it do.

 

[DeletedUser]

I have solo played from start up and been ranked from 1-5 from 1 village through to 330 villages over the course of a year.

Coplaying advantages severly decrease after start up, on top of that they only truly exist if the account is run 24/7 which in the majority of cases they are not.

I co play now, but I co play people who can only access an account for a 2-3hr window each day, same timezone, it offers no advantage to me whatsoever.

There is no difference in my eyes to a coplayed account and one which has a player on who has access to the account all day long.

I am, more than happy to/and have competed against coplayed accounts.

 

[DeletedUser]

I think it only gives you a disadvantage if theres one in your area.

if theres not then you should be able to keep up with them, as no one will be farming the resources during the night so you'll get a brilliant income in the mornings.
however even if there's one in the area, its pretty feasible you could outcompete them during the time your online by blanket farming the area, giving you the advantage to grow quicker in the day keeping roughly up to pace with them overall.

 

[DeletedUser]

Nice write up. I like that you thought all this out and posted it reasonably and logically. As for competition, I completely agree with what you said. Honestly if Axes coplayers had other accounts, we'd probably have another full tribe of exceptional players (Not saying axes are the only ones. I rather like a few of the current top 10 tribes).

Thankyou.

Honestly I agree that sometimes co playing is done in excess and 4 players on one account is probably pushing the envelope, if it has not already broken it. However, as stated several times, co playing is a method to save time for the individual player and keep them competitive with players that are active close to 24/7. Albeit when experienced players do it, those accounts generally stick to the top 100.

I think that coplaying was initially created for experienced long serving players to compete with less skilled 24/7 players. But think that actually the reverse has happened and now 24/7 players dont stand a chance against the coplayers. And where does this leave the average player?
The bolded part - I think many people would have to agree that the situation is no llonger the coplaying players keeping competitive.

We enjoy competition immensely after all.

And I believe this would increase competition. You'll notice Nauz has left Axes! to make the world more competitive.

As for How to lose Axes being almost 1000 points... He's a very very good player and knows how and when to construct the proper buildings and has a location that he controls and farms for a vast distance. Now your are probably correct, if he was not being co played then yes his score would most likely be about 100-200 points lower. However I don't think that would change the fact that he is thrashing everyone.

I dont think it would change the fact that he is thrashing eveyrone. But I think it would make him thrashing us by slightly less. Overall increasing competitiveness.

FYI, it's not prohibited by inno games verbally or actually.

I know it is not prohibited at all. I never thought/suggested this.

Once again Ubiz, thank you for your well thought out and logical post here. I understand your frustration about some of us complaining about lack of competition. So far I think there will be several tribes that will be able to compete with us effectively.

Thanks for the same from you. Though I would say that I am not frustrated by the fact I personally cant compete with them. I know many of them are better players than me, individually. I was frustrated by cold fusion complaining about the lack of competition though (hence the sig).

 

[DeletedUser]

I have solo played from start up and been ranked from 1-5 from 1 village through to 330 villages over the course of a year.

Coplaying advantages severly decrease after start up, on top of that they only truly exist if the account is run 24/7 which in the majority of cases they are not.

I co play now, but I co play people who can only access an account for a 2-3hr window each day, same timezone, it offers no advantage to me whatsoever.

There is no difference in my eyes to a coplayed account and one which has a player on who has access to the account all day long.

I am, more than happy to/and have competed against coplayed accounts.

I applaud you as such.
But think you would agree that in general, more of the better accounts are coplayed than not.

 

[DeletedUser]

Some people call co-playing cheating, why, cos they don't have someone to co-play with them and don't have the time to dedicate to the game due to rl.

I do not call coplaying cheating.

 

[DeletedUser]

however even if there's one in the area, its pretty feasible you could outcompete them during the time your online by blanket farming the area, giving you the advantage to grow quicker in the day keeping roughly up to pace with them overall.

I disagree. I dont think there is much logic behind being able to keep up with them if they are in your area. You can compete evenly with them when you are online. And they outcompete you wen you are offline. Hence they outcompete you overall.
And as we all know things tend to be exponential on TW. An advntage in the first day will become more of an advantage in the second and so on. Not altering much until nobling / serious attacks with rams/cats come into the game.

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't really care about the unfairness. I can't compete for #1, but I can still have fun.

Fair enough
That is also why I still play.
But being able to compete for the top spot might increase the fun, would you agree?

 

[DeletedUser]

Some people call co-playing cheating, why, cos they don't have someone to co-play with them and don't have the time to dedicate to the game due to rl.

I do not call coplaying cheating.

Should have said 'I do not call co-playing cheating, either'

 

[DeletedUser1511]

World 56.net is a no hauls world. Go look it up, there in no farming. Is the world magically more competitive for the less skilled players?

Go take a look and come back and argue :icon_wink:

 

[DeletedUser]

World 56.net is a no hauls world. Go look it up, there in no farming. Is the world magically more competitive for the less skilled players?

Go take a look and come back and argue :icon_wink:

I dont play that world so dont know which accounts are coplayed. Would be hard to make an argument without that kind of info.
Farming is just one exmaple of how a coplayed account is advantaged... In this world, and this stage in the world, it is the most dominant advantage... but not the only.
We alll know there ar eother advantages to coplaying (being online for incomings etc) too and though Ive probably focused on farming (because this is a w9 thread?) I have never said it iis the only benefit they get.