DeletedUser
Guest
That's a very good point.
P.S. Xclude have you always been a mod cos i only just noticed it?
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That's a very good point.
P.S. Xclude have you always been a mod cos i only just noticed it?
DeletedUser
Guest
The problem is that we don't know how long a civilisation like ours might last. Yes, we have been around for about 200,000 years as a species, but we only have maybe 5,000 years of civilisation behind us. The universe is approximately 14 billion (that's 14,000,000,000 just to emphasize the scale of that number) years old, so our civilisation has existed for just 3.57e-5 % of the total universe's life. I'll put that into perspective for you: if we could shrink the entire history of the universe down into a single year, our civilisation would have been around for about the last 11 or 12 seconds of that entire year.
Let that factoid sink in for a moment, and then consider this: the edge of the observable universe is 46.5 billion light years away. If aliens are bound by the same scientific laws as us, which state that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light in a vacuum, then they would have to pass within 200,000 light years of Earth to discover that we exist (we have been around in our present form for about 200,000 years, so an observer 200,000 light years away would be watching our earliest history right now). Our "sphere-of-existence" 200,000 light years across represents only about 8e-15 % of the entire volume of the observable universe. Putting that too in perspective: if the whole universe were condensed into the volume of the earth's oceans, our 200,000 light year bubble would measure just 3 metres across.
In order for aliens to even have the chance be aware of our existence, their (not much larger) bubble would have to have passed through ours during the 11-12 seconds that we have existed in our ocean. Their 3-metre wide bubble could have appeared anywhere in the entire volume of the ocean, and would have just 11-12 seconds to meet ours. Infact, they may only be able to detect us in the last few seconds of their bubble's existence, so in reality our bubbles would have to meet in that fleeting moment where the alien race was capable of detecting us.
Even an alien civilisation that has existed for millions of years, say 40 million, would have a sphere-of-existence just 600 metres across in the entire ocean. And that sphere would still have to meet our piddling little 3-metre-wide sphere before it were even physically possible for them to detect us. AND each sphere could appear anywhere in the entire ocean, at any point in time during the year I mentioned earlier.
If you can cope with all of those comparisons, then you might have an idea of just how unlikely it would be for aliens to become aware of our existence in the universe...
(And no, I didn't take account of the fact that aliens may have perfected the science of faster-than-light travel, but none of us can imagine how that might open up the universe to a race with that capability...)
Anyone who wants to see the calculations I did for those numbers, message me on skype and I'll send you the excel spreadsheet I worked them out on...
Let that factoid sink in for a moment, and then consider this: the edge of the observable universe is 46.5 billion light years away. If aliens are bound by the same scientific laws as us, which state that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light in a vacuum, then they would have to pass within 200,000 light years of Earth to discover that we exist (we have been around in our present form for about 200,000 years, so an observer 200,000 light years away would be watching our earliest history right now). Our "sphere-of-existence" 200,000 light years across represents only about 8e-15 % of the entire volume of the observable universe. Putting that too in perspective: if the whole universe were condensed into the volume of the earth's oceans, our 200,000 light year bubble would measure just 3 metres across.
In order for aliens to even have the chance be aware of our existence, their (not much larger) bubble would have to have passed through ours during the 11-12 seconds that we have existed in our ocean. Their 3-metre wide bubble could have appeared anywhere in the entire volume of the ocean, and would have just 11-12 seconds to meet ours. Infact, they may only be able to detect us in the last few seconds of their bubble's existence, so in reality our bubbles would have to meet in that fleeting moment where the alien race was capable of detecting us.
Even an alien civilisation that has existed for millions of years, say 40 million, would have a sphere-of-existence just 600 metres across in the entire ocean. And that sphere would still have to meet our piddling little 3-metre-wide sphere before it were even physically possible for them to detect us. AND each sphere could appear anywhere in the entire ocean, at any point in time during the year I mentioned earlier.
If you can cope with all of those comparisons, then you might have an idea of just how unlikely it would be for aliens to become aware of our existence in the universe...
(And no, I didn't take account of the fact that aliens may have perfected the science of faster-than-light travel, but none of us can imagine how that might open up the universe to a race with that capability...)
Anyone who wants to see the calculations I did for those numbers, message me on skype and I'll send you the excel spreadsheet I worked them out on...
Last edited by a moderator:
DeletedUser
Guest
The problem is that we don't know how long a civilisation like ours might last. Yes, we have been around for about 200,000 years as a species, but we only have maybe 5,000 years of civilisation behind us. The universe is approximately 14 billion (that's 14,000,000,000 just to emphasize the scale of that number) years old, so our civilisation has existed for just 3.57e-5 % of the total universe's life. I'll put that into perspective for you: if we could shrink the entire history of the universe down into a single year, our civilisation would have been around for about the last 11 or 12 seconds of that entire year.
Let that factoid sink in for a moment, and then consider this: the edge of the observable universe is 46.5 billion light years away. If aliens are bound by the same scientific laws as us, which state that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light in a vacuum, then they would have to pass within 200,000 light years of Earth to discover that we exist (we have been around in our present form for about 200,000 years, so an observer 200,000 light years away would be watching our earliest history right now). Our "sphere-of-existence" 200,000 light years across represents only about 8e-15 % of the entire volume of the universe. Putting that too in perspective: if the whole universe were condensed into the volume of the earth's oceans, our 200,000 light year bubble would measure just 3 metres across.
In order for aliens to even have the chance be aware of our existence, their (not much larger) bubble would have to have passed through ours during the 11-12 seconds that we have existed in our ocean. Their 3-metre wide bubble could have appeared anywhere in the entire volume of the ocean, and would have just 11-12 seconds to meet ours. Infact, they may only be able to detect us in the last few seconds of their bubble's existence, so in reality our bubbles would have to meet in that fleeting moment where the alien race was capable of detecting us.
Even an alien civilisation that has existed for millions of years, say 40 million, would have a sphere-of-existence just 600 metres across in the entire ocean. And that sphere would still have to meet our piddling little 3-metre-wide sphere before it were even physically possible for them to detect us. AND each sphere could appear anywhere in the entire ocean, at any point in time during the year I mentioned earlier.
If you can cope with all of those comparisons, then you might have an idea of just how unlikely it would be for aliens to become aware of our existence in the universe...
(And no, I didn't take account of the fact that aliens may have perfected the science of faster-than-light travel, but none of us can imagine how that might open up the universe to a race with that capability...)
Anyone who wants to see the calculations I did for those numbers, message me on skype and I'll send you the excel spreadsheet I worked them out on...
i nominate you for the award of most useful, that made so much sense and was so informative i read it 3 times.
DeletedUser2765
Guest
The problem is that we don't know how long a civilisation like ours might last. Yes, we have been around for about 200,000 years as a species, but we only have maybe 5,000 years of civilisation behind us. The universe is approximately 14 billion (that's 14,000,000,000 just to emphasize the scale of that number) years old, so our civilisation has existed for just 3.57e-5 % of the total universe's life. I'll put that into perspective for you: if we could shrink the entire history of the universe down into a single year, our civilisation would have been around for about the last 11 or 12 seconds of that entire year.
Let that factoid sink in for a moment, and then consider this: the edge of the observable universe is 46.5 billion light years away. If aliens are bound by the same scientific laws as us, which state that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light in a vacuum, then they would have to pass within 200,000 light years of Earth to discover that we exist (we have been around in our present form for about 200,000 years, so an observer 200,000 light years away would be watching our earliest history right now). Our "sphere-of-existence" 200,000 light years across represents only about 8e-15 % of the entire volume of the observable universe. Putting that too in perspective: if the whole universe were condensed into the volume of the earth's oceans, our 200,000 light year bubble would measure just 3 metres across.
In order for aliens to even have the chance be aware of our existence, their (not much larger) bubble would have to have passed through ours during the 11-12 seconds that we have existed in our ocean. Their 3-metre wide bubble could have appeared anywhere in the entire volume of the ocean, and would have just 11-12 seconds to meet ours. Infact, they may only be able to detect us in the last few seconds of their bubble's existence, so in reality our bubbles would have to meet in that fleeting moment where the alien race was capable of detecting us.
Even an alien civilisation that has existed for millions of years, say 40 million, would have a sphere-of-existence just 600 metres across in the entire ocean. And that sphere would still have to meet our piddling little 3-metre-wide sphere before it were even physically possible for them to detect us. AND each sphere could appear anywhere in the entire ocean, at any point in time during the year I mentioned earlier.
If you can cope with all of those comparisons, then you might have an idea of just how unlikely it would be for aliens to become aware of our existence in the universe...
(And no, I didn't take account of the fact that aliens may have perfected the science of faster-than-light travel, but none of us can imagine how that might open up the universe to a race with that capability...)
Anyone who wants to see the calculations I did for those numbers, message me on skype and I'll send you the excel spreadsheet I worked them out on...
Now here's the question that needs to be answered;
Do you really believe light is the fastest something can possibly travel? I don't. I believe that in 100, maybe 500 or even 1,000 years. We will have a means to travel much much much faster then light.
Yes, I know, physics dictate its impossible. But physics is a constantly changing field.
Edit: Just saw your ()'s. Nevermind I guess. :icon_razz:
DeletedUser
Guest
That's true, physics changes every now and then. A guy will step in with a new theory, and then the impossible is thought of as possible.
DeletedUser
Guest
Now here's the question that needs to be answered;
Do you really believe light is the fastest something can possibly travel? I don't. I believe that in 100, maybe 500 or even 1,000 years. We will have a means to travel much much much faster then light.
Yes, I know, physics dictate its impossible. But physics is a constantly changing field.
Edit: Just saw your ()'s. Nevermind I guess. :icon_razz:
Yes, I believe that nothing can through space faster than light. This is an important principle of Einstein's theory of relativity, which has been shown experimentally to be almost (but not quite!) perfectly correct. I do believe that there may be ways to get around this, though. The question we have to answer now is How can we move from A to B without having to move through the space between? Maybe once we have a theory that encompasses the quantum and relativistic we will be able to answer this...
DeletedUser
Guest
Once, humans thought that we'd die if we went faster than 26 mph. IMO, same applies here.Yes, I believe that nothing can through space faster than light. This is an important principle of Einstein's theory of relativity, which has been shown experimentally to be almost (but not quite!) perfectly correct. I do believe that there may be ways to get around this, though. The question we have to answer now is How can we move from A to B without having to move through the space between? Maybe once we have a theory that encompasses the quantum and relativistic we will be able to answer this...
DeletedUser
Guest
Yes, I believe that nothing can through space faster than light. This is an important principle of Einstein's theory of relativity, which has been shown experimentally to be almost (but not quite!) perfectly correct. I do believe that there may be ways to get around this, though. The question we have to answer now is How can we move from A to B without having to move through the space between? Maybe once we have a theory that encompasses the quantum and relativistic we will be able to answer this...
You say that - but aliens might have found a new one (Speed of Sound, Speed of Light etc) which only they can pick up. :icon_confused:
DeletedUser857
Guest
Or they might work on the same priciple the star treck ship moves on. The idea of 'warping' space so you only travel a few thousand miles forward to back but end up billions of miles away from where you started.
Bending space so you can move from A -> B faster, scientists are working on how to do that as we speak.
Bending space so you can move from A -> B faster, scientists are working on how to do that as we speak.
DeletedUser
Guest
I'm going to go for the original question asked.
I always used to believe that there would definitely be other life in the universe, however I recently watched a programme which convinced me otherwise. There were/are loads of chance events which enable Earth to harbour life, the distance from the sun, the atmosphere, the moon, the speed of its rotation, the presence of an Ozone layer, the Earths gravity, presence of Water etc. the list goes on. If you lose just one of these then the chances of life being present are dramatically reduced.
Onto the other debate thing, I don't think we will ever discover other lifeforms (or they'll ever discover us). This is because the time it takes for intelligent life to evolve makes it harder to develop the necessary technology to be able to travel space before something dramatic happens which ends the life, e.g the sun's life ends, global warming, war etc.
I always used to believe that there would definitely be other life in the universe, however I recently watched a programme which convinced me otherwise. There were/are loads of chance events which enable Earth to harbour life, the distance from the sun, the atmosphere, the moon, the speed of its rotation, the presence of an Ozone layer, the Earths gravity, presence of Water etc. the list goes on. If you lose just one of these then the chances of life being present are dramatically reduced.
Onto the other debate thing, I don't think we will ever discover other lifeforms (or they'll ever discover us). This is because the time it takes for intelligent life to evolve makes it harder to develop the necessary technology to be able to travel space before something dramatic happens which ends the life, e.g the sun's life ends, global warming, war etc.
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