Skilled Players

DeletedUser

Guest
I'm going to have to step in and put an end to this thread-derailment. You've had plenty of ego discussion here but I'll treat any further posts as spam, even retaliations to existing posts. Sorry guys!

This thread is about what makes a skilled player, so let's return to that topic.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Just wish to say, great forum presence here ^^^ (genuinely)

Thanks for the positive attitude. +1
 

DeletedUser

Guest
a great player for me isnt the one who can time attacks / snipe / trains / plan Ops .. no

because all of the above can be done by anyone as tools are available and even for a new comer you just need some one to guide you to use right/ approved tools and a little training to get you going .

for me a great player is the one who Enjoys the game with his mates , who has the attitude to stand with his tribe come what may . who keeps the tribe first . Who is not afraid of rising incomings every minute .

and at last who plays with honor and as backstabbing is becoming too popular in tribal wars , he neither does it himself nor he encourages it .
 

DeletedUser11971

Guest
was for the most part an excellent read so ty to all those who contributed.

I don't know if you can state that this or that makes a great player but will say this. A great player, for me, is someone who can not only play the game but who can also think about it and post about it to a high standard.

Personally most of the tricks I have learned have all come from posts on these forums as other players have revealed some of their hard won experience. For example I would never have thought of cancel sniping but was a throwaway line on here that caught my attention and so I looked and sure enough found enough info to make the connection but without the first post I would still be completely oblivious to it.

For me that is the difference between being able to play the game and being a great player.

So although not on Uk16 but taking the next world and the posts into account I will say a for a great player then look at Gargareth and AP as surely their posts on Uk17 have been illuminating, helpful and knowledgeable.

I have only once played against a truly great player who not only proceeded to bash my tribe about (by himself) was funny, polite and after we fought him to a draw incredibly generous with his praise even though on a 1 to 1 level we were far beneath him in terms of skill it is almost embarrassing looking back now. He then proceeded to educate some of us before leaving TW to polish planes.

It was only when reading the posts on UK17 that I realised quite what you miss when the "great" players are no longer around. Gargareth and AP ty for the reminder and ty for the posts.

Sorry Will but just no.
 

Maggie Wallis

Well-Known Member
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Just a small point... on the last limited hauls Garg did get it wrong... from memory he went for maxed mines then barb munched with very few troops but his res production was behind those that were lucky enough to have a easy good target near by... though I highly recommend anyone that ever needs to find a use for their calculator to have a chat with Garg...

Played against and with AP... great player... though he did, again on the last limited hauls world, agree with me to send my sword nuke back at a target in NB when 4 nobles had left it on low loyalty...

Which goes to prove, even the best players can get it wrong, without the need to blame co-players, exams, brothers, or lack of interest...

Me, I'm just a average player that enjoys bashing egos that are misplaced....
 

DeletedUser10576

Guest
Very true there Manc.Harry Bounce.. peep`s do hide and play soft.
 

DeletedUser11919

Guest
Me, I'm just a average player that enjoys bashing egos that are misplaced....

average? hehe, there must be some proper rubbish players out there if you are average...

So on topic, what makes a good tw player? For me the game is a past time played for enjoyment. Therefore my opinion of a good player is one that:

i) is sociable and makes your continued involvement pleasurable
ii) understands the team ethos and is willing to inconvenience themselves for the tribe's benefit
iii) hangs around even when they have incoming
iv) takes sits when needed
v) does what i tell them with no moaning

After that you get to less important factors such as

vi) ability to time attacks
vii) ability to snipe, cancel snipe, bounce snipe
 

DeletedUser282

Guest
Just a small point... on the last limited hauls Garg did get it wrong... from memory he went for maxed mines then barb munched with very few troops but his res production was behind those that were lucky enough to have a easy good target near by... though I highly recommend anyone that ever needs to find a use for their calculator to have a chat with Garg...

Oh I knew (well not knew but it seemed probably wrong) it was wrong at the time- but I was putting essentially 0 activity into the account and 30/30/30 seemed to be the easiest way to lazymode whilst still doing ok. (and I knew I could be rank 1 for a bit whilst everyone was raising smithy before I started to xD)
The problem with it (similar to the problem I noted with other strategies on limited hauls) is that high mines have a much much worse return on investment than lower mines. So if you noble earlier- then use market transfers to transfer your resources from your say like 27 mines in your main to pay for much lower mine levels in the second village- at that point it's more efficient to do that than to spend on the level 28 in the main- and you also gain the resources from that village by having it earlier- so even without the double mine base it is better to not go 30/30/30 (assuming in either scenario you are nobling a barb which I did on uk11)

But yeah I agree with your post (at least partially), even better players do things stupidly sometimes. Like lots of people seem to hero-worship nauz, on w37 our account got a train sent to it across 2 seconds from a good tribe (which we ragequit from because nauz not like kebabe) they fed false info that it had 1/4 nuke in each side so we put some D and got some small support (enough to kill first 1/4 nuke then backtime the train was the plan) then simply did not snipe due to thinking we'd just lose the troops (edit- it's worse than that, I put 5 axe in each gap to show we could split it to try to show how awesome we were) then died as it was a normal train with all the O at the front, just timed totally horribly.
I don't think making a stupid mistake makes someone a bad player though, just suggests that maybe they are, how good someone is should be judged on how well they do across multiple worlds.

I also pretty much agree with purple wkds first list, except maybe "does what I tell them to do without moaning" because I have no idea what you tell them to do. But the second list sniping and such tricks aren't as important as understanding how to defend properly using defensive troops.
 
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DeletedUser11919

Guest
Jo, you always did as I told you in the end, just made me take ages explaining why I was saying do it. That said, that point was tongue in cheek.

Sniping is the most important skill in the game tbh. Knowing to super stack some villas to minimise troop losses per troop killed, and snipe other trains is important but falls on its bum if you mess up the snipes. Worst players are ones that take their available def and split it evenly. I love them as you know you can clear all with a little pain.the ones that super stack and snipe never run out of def and therefore they are awesome.
 

DeletedUser11971

Guest
I have never been that obedient James you know this! Also I am sad as the rest of the top 10 here are (smothers mouth) and I am not cool enough so they will chortle at me and I hate this. Pwetty please could you (smothers mouth) so can look cool.

Flicks hair
 

DeletedUser282

Guest
Jo, you always did as I told you in the end, just made me take ages explaining why I was saying do it. That said, that point was tongue in cheek.

Sniping is the most important skill in the game tbh. Knowing to super stack some villas to minimise troop losses per troop killed, and snipe other trains is important but falls on its bum if you mess up the snipes. Worst players are ones that take their available def and split it evenly. I love them as you know you can clear all with a little pain.the ones that super stack and snipe never run out of def and therefore they are awesome.

Lets discount farm rule worlds for this answer because I've never played on one.

No. Sniping is a trick. It is barely defending, lategame if people insist on using trains they should use proper ones with the troops spread out to reduce sniping effectiveness.

Also you shouldn't really need to be sniping- with correct defense spread, correct O:D ratios (by this I mean like 1:2 or more turtled than that) then you should have enough D to cover nobles (the only exception being if you are in a tribe that is utterly dwarfed by an opposing tribe) if lots of players send attacks at you, then you'll need tribal D, which is totally fine because lots of people are attacking you. The skills to defending are dealing with it to get enough D in the correct place- spreading D out- i.e. don't send a whole D village in one go, rather send parts of the D to various different villages, this means that your rebuild time will be much faster. It is also about bouncing D around so as to be able to hold off even more with minimal casualties.

Sniping is very very low down in terms of important skills for the game.
 

DeletedUser11971

Guest
sniping has always been in my view merely a time giver for you to get support to where it is needed.

Also you shouldn't really need to be sniping- with correct defense spread, correct O:D ratios (by this I mean like 1:2 or more turtled than that) then you should have enough D to cover nobles (the only exception being if you are in a tribe that is utterly dwarfed by an opposing tribe) if lots of players send attacks at you, then you'll need tribal D, which is totally fine because lots of people are attacking you.

Now for many they do find themselves in a tribe that is indeed utterly dwarfed by another or if attacked by a decent tribe finding tribal support hard to come by.

So surely the skill here is deciding what is fake and what is real and defending accordingly but of course that can be countered by the pretend real attacks and forcing someone to quit a la Crom technique.

So what then surely sniping is all you have when seriously under the cosh and you need time to get support to you when it is clear to your tribe that you are indeed the target!

Also it is nice to see someone say it is ok to get tribal support as have seen other players deem anyone asking for tribal support weak! For me if you are going to stack stack big I say!

The skills to defending are dealing with it to get enough D in the correct place- spreading D out- i.e. don't send a whole D village in one go, rather send parts of the D to various different villages, this means that your rebuild time will be much faster. It is also about bouncing D around so as to be able to hold off even more with minimal casualties.

Sniping is very very low down in terms of important skills for the game.

Yes to the splitting of support and how many folks do this? However, I cannot agree with you saying sniping is very low down in terms of important skills for the game.

Thinking yes rates higher but you do still need to be able to snipe so it is a skill and it shouldn't be belittled. I wonder how many tribes you have been in that have been faced with a much larger tribe attacking since when you started out?

Perhaps you have forgotten what it feels like to know you are up against better players maybe?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I agree sniping can be a great time giver to get support in, especially on such a church world, i recall net 63 when a large tribe declared on a small rim tribe, pretty much down to one or two players (for the majority one) who arranged maybe 10 - 20 snipes a day for whole tribe, whilst defending his own account by defending just one or two villages, and pre nobling reacpping etc, it had been effective to the point when he left through lack of sleep and increased work committments, his account was untouched for 2 weeks and also peace was offered.

The point i make, is in the heat of battle, a good player will use many different methods all on 1 occasion, snipe, backtime, pre noble recap, to the point where every noble nuke is followed by same second nukes, to stroll in casually with noble shortly afterwards, attackers can also be thwarted by forward thinking with merchant numbers to dodge ressies instead of mint coins, ressies ofc better to replace troops lost in battle than just mint, secondary to that hitting yourself with farm runs from opposite villes is a tactic seldom used.

To agree with a past comment from D1, the best are not always the biggest.
 

DeletedUser11919

Guest
Lets discount farm rule worlds for this answer because I've never played on one.

No. Sniping is a trick. It is barely defending, lategame if people insist on using trains they should use proper ones with the troops spread out to reduce sniping effectiveness.

Also you shouldn't really need to be sniping- with correct defense spread, correct O:D ratios (by this I mean like 1:2 or more turtled than that) then you should have enough D to cover nobles (the only exception being if you are in a tribe that is utterly dwarfed by an opposing tribe) if lots of players send attacks at you, then you'll need tribal D, which is totally fine because lots of people are attacking you. The skills to defending are dealing with it to get enough D in the correct place- spreading D out- i.e. don't send a whole D village in one go, rather send parts of the D to various different villages, this means that your rebuild time will be much faster. It is also about bouncing D around so as to be able to hold off even more with minimal casualties.

Sniping is very very low down in terms of important skills for the game.

What planet are you on and can we get an invite cos it sounds awesome. I have never played a world where there was enough defense to cover the whole frontline sufficiently and still enough offense to make progress. I have never had less than 2:1 def to off ratio either before you suggest that as the reason. Even with packet defense systems you will need to rely on sniping at times. This is a skill (albeit one the settings on attack gaps devalue) and the ability to do it right cannot be underestimated. To flippantly say split the nukes and prevent it is daft, a full def snipe will still be enough. This leaves the attacker needing to nuke noble, at which point your skilled player rubs his hands with glee and prenobles and renobles.
 

DeletedUser282

Guest
What planet are you on and can we get an invite cos it sounds awesome. I have never played a world where there was enough defense to cover the whole frontline sufficiently and still enough offense to make progress. I have never had less than 2:1 def to off ratio either before you suggest that as the reason. Even with packet defense systems you will need to rely on sniping at times. This is a skill (albeit one the settings on attack gaps devalue) and the ability to do it right cannot be underestimated. To flippantly say split the nukes and prevent it is daft, a full def snipe will still be enough. This leaves the attacker needing to nuke noble, at which point your skilled player rubs his hands with glee and prenobles and renobles.

Well I guess I assumed competence from people and tribes, my mistake.
Consider a war between 2 equal sized tribes, let one (ours) be 2:1 D:O the other is pure O, they have 3 nukes for every 2D you have, so you should be able to defend that very easily with good organisational skills and teamwork (both much much much more important than what you consider most important [sniping trains])
Obviously you aren't going to defend if they nuke backline vills (assuming they are also attacking the front) but you should be able to defend the front perfectly easily without resorting to such tricks as sniping.

Now obviously if you decide to snipe with full D vills you can stop any train, but then you are using full D vills for sniping- given that your claim is that you can't find enough D to defend, this seems kinda wasteful, and as you say, people will move away from using trains and towards attacks with nukes and nobles (or indeed just any kind of single attack with nobles)
now playing renobling games will usually keep the village yours the majority of the time- but you can't really use it, it has no wall so you can't efficiently defend it again, they can noble it off you whenever they want to and force you to renoble, so it isn't really doing you much good, is it? Much better to simply play well and defend with defensive troops.

I will however admit that renobling can be useful (whilst much worse than defending properly if you have the defence, which you should) , but prenobling and renobling techniques are not the same as sniping trains, in fact it is part of the argument of why sniping really isn't very important at all, if you and your tribe aren't competent enough to defend correctly and need to do such things, the only benefit you get from sniping rather than renobling is the troops in the village (and on packet worlds the packet cost of a noble- but in renobling you also cost them the same thing) which really isn't a particularly large deal most of the time (especially given that this front line village now has no wall and so it is very likely to be nobled [and perhaps then prenobled] losing the troops anyway in the near future)

So from that analysis, we have that sniping is a skill that is useful if you haven't defended competently originally, that that doesn't get you much significant benefit when compared to simply renobling.
I'm not sure I agree with you that that is the most important part of the game tbh.
 

DeletedUser12062

Guest
May I then add after recent posts a great player is one who realizes turtle is a life saver sometimes but certainly not a good strategy against a offensie tribe
I keep reading about this need for mass defence and I accept im not a great player but I know what team id rather be in.
A great player has to fight with whatever he has, have a few sleepless nights, go to work and nip off to toilets to check hes account turtling isnt the way
 

DeletedUser11971

Guest
Oh now Gargareth you are sort of making a few assumptions about poor Purple's post, although yes it is fair to bash the sniping is the most important skill as this is clearly bonkers.

Yes teamwork is the most important skill on TW and alas how many tribes actually have this? Very very few alas (though many will think they do)

However, you can't really bash poor James by assuming he would only snipe and pre noble/re noble just as James can't really say that sniping is the be all and end all.

Sniping is a skill and an important one and at times every playe,r even ones with hair that only gets washed under tropical waterfalls and live in tribes with supreme organisational and teamwork skills will have to snipe.

Finally, consider a world where one tribe is very much larger and you alas are in the smaller one (good organisation and teamwork though but facing large odds) and you can;t snipe as never thought it worth learning (see how I am constructing an unlikely argument here?!) and folk would now say "hell yes James is the man he wins this argument" as clearly not being able to snipe would allow the larger tribe to crush you quite quickly.

Then consider the above but although you rarely used sniping you were really quite good at it and do you think you could hold off the behemoth for much longer? I think we all know the answer.

Is sniping an important skill well of course it is, is James slightly excitable when saying it is the most important skill ever and of all time well of course he was and he deserved the well thought out slap down you gave him.

Is teamwork the most important skill well it is (whatever planet you live on!)
 

DeletedUser11919

Guest
Well I guess I assumed competence from people and tribes, my mistake.
Consider a war between 2 equal sized tribes, let one (ours) be 2:1 D:O the other is pure O, they have 3 nukes for every 2D you have, so you should be able to defend that very easily with good organisational skills and teamwork (both much much much more important than what you consider most important [sniping trains]

erm did you read my first post? Quite clearly sniping wasnt the most important skill in my ranking of things it didnt make the top 5. However in response to the above you suck. Lol. If you have a two hemisphere world war with both sides having 2:1 def to off then sure you can stack the frontlines with enough def to kill their nukes if they apply them evenly or if they only send real attacks. If they send fakes effectively and then nuke specific targets only then they will have enough nukes to clear the targets as you have split your def to cover the whole front. With decent sniping you can put long range snipes in place on early noble trains and then you buy time to stack the real targets once they are identified. Time is key. Sniping buys time and is therefor important. Stacking and working as a team is more important but as I already pointed out that the social side of things is by far the most important I figured you would draw the appropriate conclusion that friends work better as a team.


Obviously you aren't going to defend if they nuke backline vills (assuming they are also attacking the front) but you should be able to defend the front perfectly easily without resorting to such tricks as sniping.

nope. On a small world moving all your def evenly across the front may give you a 7-8d stack. Fake an area heavily and send 25 nukes to one then you clear the one and get it unless they have sniped you.


Now obviously if you decide to snipe with full D vills you can stop any train, but then you are using full D vills for sniping- given that your claim is that you can't find enough D to defend, this seems kinda wasteful

not at all, a full def villa to snipe is more efficient than finding 20 to stack and leaves the over 19 to reduce troop losses elsewhere or snipe others you cant stack.

, and as you say, people will move away from using trains and towards attacks with nukes and nobles (or indeed just any kind of single attack with nobles)
now playing renobling games will usually keep the village yours the majority of the time- but you can't really use it, it has no wall so you can't efficiently defend it again, they can noble it off you whenever they want to and force you to renoble, so it isn't really doing you much good, is it? Much better to simply play well and defend with defensive troops.

good god man. I expected better of you. Whats the most efficient way to kill a nuke? Catch it in a village with no defense. Prenobling and recapping is great. Time the recaps for right after you lose villas and you kill their nukes with tiny troop losses. They can keep coming but if they do then you keep killing their nukes easily. Eventually they run out of nukes and you rebuild the wall. Much more efficient than losing a large amount of def per nuke once they have the walls down.


I will however admit that renobling can be useful (whilst much worse than defending properly if you have the defence, which you should) , but prenobling and renobling techniques are not the same as sniping trains, in fact it is part of the argument of why sniping really isn't very important at all, if you and your tribe aren't competent enough to defend correctly and need to do such things, the only benefit you get from sniping rather than renobling is the troops in the village (and on packet worlds the packet cost of a noble- but in renobling you also cost them the same thing) which really isn't a particularly large deal most of the time (especially given that this front line village now has no wall and so it is very likely to be nobled [and perhaps then prenobled] losing the troops anyway in the near future)

So from that analysis, we have that sniping is a skill that is useful if you haven't defended competently originally, that that doesn't get you much significant benefit when compared to simply renobling.
I'm not sure I agree with you that that is the most important part of the game tbh.

In red.
 
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