Scottish Referendum - Yes or No?

Discussion in 'Market Square Discussions' started by Mattxx, Nov 20, 2013.

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  1. Mattxx

    Mattxx Guest

    I personally only know what the news tells me, and have never paid too much attention to Scotland all my life up until now. However, I find it particularly interesting. I'm wondering if there was a Yes vote what would they have to gain from it or more importantly, what might they lose?

    I understand that the arguments coming fourth is that Westminister is doing a poor job of controlling the economy (which they are) and that they could do a better job. Also that most of their funding would come from oil in the North sea. Then I'm also reading that they won't change currency and it would be upto the the UK government to decide whether or not they can keep the sterling which would mean the BofE still controls their finances. :icon_neutral: However I personally don't think largely basing your argument around some oil that is partly in Scottish waters and has been under the sea for millions of years is a particularly good argument for ditching the rest of the UK.

    If you're Scottish who will you be voting for and why?
    If you're English, Irish, Welsh what is your opinion?

    Do you want Scotland to Vote Yes/No and why?


    If you're foreign, please don't reply.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  2. Gargareth

    Gargareth Member

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    Please can all Scottish people vote no for me.

    I don't even slightly care about your country, but almost none of you vote conservative so I quite like having you as part of the UK electorate.

    On a more serious note, the pros and cons are more interesting. The benefits would be the oil, but there would be a loss (not counting oil) of revenue from leaving. This is approximately balanced.

    Other problems are currency and status in the EU and in other international organisations and other multinational agreements.

    In terms of currency, if they want to use the pound they can use the pound, England doesn't have total control over the pound, what we do however have control over, is monetary policy for the pound. And it has been stated that if Scotland leaves the Uk and remains in the pound, we won't act as a monetary union, rather we will set our monetary policy to best suit NI,Wales and England, and Scotland won't be considered. This could be somewhat harmful for their economy.

    I think if they left then they would be a part of the EU (though I believe opinions differ over that) but a more interesting question is on the Euro- as all EU members (except those few with opt-outs) are obliged to at some point join the Euro- so Scotland would almost certainly at some point have to join the Euro if it wanted to stay in the EU. Which seems to me to certainly a bad thing because it means giving more power to the EU and the EU is run by clowns.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  3. I'm from the north of Ireland, so it would be interesting to see how it effects the politics here Scotland did gain independence. There'd be a lot of confused Ulster Scots!
     
  4. PeterDGreat1

    PeterDGreat1 Member

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    Irish, yet foreign and definitely not part of the Union, so do you want a reply or not?:icon_wink:

    You seen to be implying that this is a strange occurance DM, which isn't so in my exp! :icon_razz:
     
  5. Meechan10

    Meechan10 Guest

    Kiss my ass, I'm voting yes(will post why when I get back from work)
     
  6. Gargareth

    Gargareth Member

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    Long Day?
     
  7. bluesteele16

    bluesteele16 Active Member

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    I no longer get a vote which is a shame. If I did I woul vote yes.

    The he possible benefits of North Sea oil and shale gas are large. The economy would be more stable I think as Scotland would be the most sable part of the union.

    It it would be essential to keep the pound an secre a place in the EU. In addition, I think we would need a stronger man to lead than Alex Sammond, he has never inspired confidence.

    Most importantly, we woul kick English ass at Curling

    blue
     
  8. Mancunia

    Mancunia Well-Known Member

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    Maggie stole the value of the north sea oil many years ago....

    Scotland could keep the pound... as no country has a right to stop another naming it's currency what ever it wants...

    Yes please Scotland... vote yes... as we wave bye bye to the power crazed socialists... alex, enjoy, power in a small sinking pond when you could have had a voice in a larger democracy some still stupidly listen too...

    2018 the nation to be known as BP's administration centre wins gold at the winter Olympics... Just don't tell them what the B stands for...
     
  9. LightyJo

    LightyJo Forum Goddess

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    Personally I'd like to see Scotland stay as I've always thought they put the Great into the GB tag (plus who else would make me watch curling :icon_biggrin:

    Now they have 3 options on currency.

    1: they can keep the pound as the rUK cannot stop anyone from saying the pound is their currency. However, this leads to some hard truths. Why would you leave a credit union (which is what the UK is essentially) then immediately apply to be back in it but with different terms (most of which you would have no say in).

    The scottish banks would immediately domicile themselves in the rUK as they would need to have the Bank of England as their lender of last resort (anyone remember the bail outs?!)

    This would be a heavy, perhaps devastating blow to the Scottish exchequer who no doubt would still be living in some socialist utopia but no idea how to pay for it all.

    So maybe keeping the pound is not the best idea.

    2. Could make new currency lets call it the Haggi. Now the issue here is a new country (financially wise) saddled with a large debt upon leaving (yes you will Alex fibs to you about not having any debt from the breakup) would need to convince the money markets that they can service the debt. The money markets see very high public spending, tax revenuse leaking over the border (Scottish banks are a silly high proportion of the scottish economy if you consider in the USA is 1% in scotland over 10%) so charge a high interest as the Haggi goes to junk bond status quite quickly as who would back it up?

    Would the rUK stand by and see scotland go to the wall? No of course not as Scotland would be a major trade partner so this begs the question about the logic in having a new currency (even one with such an epic name)

    Which leaves us Option 3; Join the Euro!

    Hahahahaha you say but no seriously is probably the only option. But you go from being a vital part of the UK economy to 0.3% of European GNP.

    You think they'll care that Europe wide interest rates would screw the scottish economy? Lol no nor do I as they are only bothered about well themselves really. Also, I cannot see the Spanish allowing Scotland in as this unlocks the gates for Catalonia to break away but thats another topic

    Which begs the question why would anyone in a credit union that works demand to leave only to demand to be let back in again?

    Also my elder sister was born in Scotland so what does she do on the split nationally wise? Reapply for a UK passport? Also, why do only people living in scotland get to vote when this affects all of us?

    What happens if Scotland votes yes and Labour is returned at the next General Election with MP's now in an independent nation? Do they still get to negotiate the terms of the breakup?

    However, if Scotland does vote yes I think it won't be long till they discover exactly what the word Alex and the word fib have in common.

    I hope they vote no but if they do vote yes financially it will be tough shall we say.

    Haggi should be the new name for the currency though!
     
  10. Meechan10

    Meechan10 Guest

    Day? I work away from home alot Garg :)

    As for my reasons in voting Yes.

    Well...because I can :D
     
  11. Mattxx

    Mattxx Guest

    If we're being seriously honest, the Scots need us to rule them. Before they even knew us, they were running around in skirts because they'd yet to invent trousers. Christ only knows what would happen if they left us again, bras?
     
  12. Meechan10

    Meechan10 Guest

    jealous much?
     
  13. Eldron

    Eldron Guest

    Idont know much about politics but I would imagine that an independent Scotland would be like Northumberland . . .poor.


    With regards to what Matxx said, what would they gain and lose, we'll they gain a shed load of debt, a dubious currency and keep the oil.
    While the currency, like the Euro, will remain dubious; there's a poor track record managing debt (let's remember why Scotland is part of the UK) and the oil that everyone is banging on about wont last forever. .


    Regarding currency, they can call theres whatever they want, the Falklands has the pound, ascension has the pound but they won't have the GBP.


    I have always been proud to call myself British, I joined the British Army to defend Britain and served with people from all parts of Britain and I have never really thought of myself as English however, the attitude of the Scottish towards the English (not all, but certainly the majority that I have met) really stinks and most of the time it is based on films like Braveheart rather than actual knowledge of their own history. The ex-sister in law was the proverbial straw and I am now in effect anti-Scottish.


    If Sammond was serious about gaining independence for Scotland, he would give the whole nation the vote as most would vote yes so they stop whining about it.
     
  14. Meechan10

    Meechan10 Guest

    The bold'd part was very clear after I read your post.


    A poor track record managing debt........well your one to talk, look at the UK debt just now, mostly down to English hands!

    Good, it lost all its value over the last 2 years anyway and is hardly a stable currency at the minute.
    Sure a currency union would be beneficial to both sides, but frankly right at the minute we share a currency yet in England they wont accept Scottish notes, while he accept English notes.

    Anyway we still have options at hand....


    • using sterling without currency union, or another currency like the dollar
    • creating a new Scottish currency
    • joining the Euro.

    I think (and you may have done this on purpose or not, I am not sure) you missed the part about the attitude of the English towards Scotland? Clearly you are (in your own words) anti Scottish your comment is massively bias. I also refer you to my previous comment about note acceptance.


    Why should we let another country vote on our own independence? Clearly he wants independence otherwise why the whole Yes campaign ? Your comment there is ludicrous with nothing to back it up. I'm sure the fact that he went for allowing 16 and 17 year olds to vote on the referendum aims towards backing up what I have said.

    In reality around 80% of the time Scotland's vote has not even made a difference to any political voting for the UK, like our current UK situation the Coalition in power just now would have been n power just the same if Scotland's votes never counted. (Check history, not even when Maggie Thatcher was elected would our votes have made a difference)
     
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  15. PeterDGreat1

    PeterDGreat1 Member

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    Got to agree with Jo on both of these points, though with the clarification that they put the Great into GB the way Moss side puts the Great into Greater Manchester. :icon_wink:
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
  16. LightyJo

    LightyJo Forum Goddess

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    Were you having a wee dram or 10 when you wrote this (I know you are trolling but still).

    RBS? Bank of Scotland? But blame the english as that will make everything ok.... Speak honestly Meechan or please just watch Braveheart a few times and go blind....!

    Consider the Barnett formula maybe? Perhaps factor in the imbalance of MP's? The UK is (as I said above) basically a credit union and one that Scotland does incredibly well out of. However stupid is as stupid does and if you guys want to break that then immediately apply for a new credit union whilst whining how it is all the English's fault then I guess go ahead.

    Who will you blame when you are running a socialist state with 10% of your economy just hopping back over the border as they need a Central bank folks trust...

    I would reply to the rest of your post but it is equally full of hate which is pathetic and sad. Do you really think only folks living in Scotland should get the vote on this? And allowing 16 and 17 years olds makes this ok?!

    My advice to you Meechan is when you are fairly sure that people will think you a cretin because of your views stay silent rather than remove all doubt from their minds :icon_eek:
     
  17. Meechan10

    Meechan10 Guest

    Think you'll find I never said the banking thing wasn't all down to England, but theres no denying it was a majority part of England's fault.


    p.s. Yeah no one want another country to vote on its Independence thats just stupid
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 7, 2014
  18. Phlipster

    Phlipster Active Member

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    Umm... Never known anywhere that I have been in the UK to deny a Scottish note. Certainly mild surprise from the cashier at seeing a different looking note, but so long as they can see all the security markings on it then it goes into the till. I don't even glance twice at a Scottish note when someone hands me one, I just check that it is Scottish, check the denomination, and run it under the UV light to make sure all the security markings are there. Same process as when I receive an English note. I get more surprised when I see an English £50 note :icon_razz:

    But I digress. My personal feeling at this moment in time is that Scotland should remain a part of the UK, however I have not looked very far into the issue, and examined some of the evidence myself in order to formulate my final opinion.
     
  19. Mattxx

    Mattxx Guest

    K, no one cares. Dun go all ragey
     
  20. LightyJo

    LightyJo Forum Goddess

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    Lets ignore the banking crisis as I don't think I have the patience to explain the whys to you but am sure Adam Smith (scottish) would be weeping a little bit and lets move onto the vote bit.

    We are, Meechan, one country. One part of this wants to break away and only those living in that one part on a specific date get to have this vote no matter what "nationality" they are.

    But you think folk are stupid if they say well why don;t we get a say in something that will affect all of us in the UK? I guess I must be really stupid but if it affects all of us we should all get a vote...