The power of books!

[DeletedUser]

What has the world come to? Take a step back and look at this.

Some lunatic in an America has his congregation(in its teens!) backing to burn a book basically. So people hundreds of miles away are rioting and people have been killed becuase of it! If people were'nt so rapped up in the power of religions they would be able to see how much of a farce this is.

I think its also nessesary to state that I have no hatred of Islam, I am just stating facts.

But not only that, Obama felt the need to achually have to say how terrible it was these books where getting burned. Personally, in a saner world it would have been wiser just to say, "yeah and?". Because now this guy has exactly what he wants. Publicity. If the media wasnt so sensitive about religion then the story never would have broke, becuase how often do newspapers make headline stories about the burning of books?

Its hard to decided whos worse, The fundamental Christian Terry Jones(yeah its a good joke...) for doing this or the fundamental Muslims who are rioting so violently about it.

 

[DeletedUser]

You're right. He's THREATENED to burn a few books, and suddenly the whole middle east goes up in riot.

Meanwhile, Terrorists kill people in their hundreds.

When 9/11 happened, or the bombings in london happened, there were no riots at all.

Now if you go to the middle east they are holding signs up calling for death to all christians. This is a field day for terrorists as suddenly they are the good guys.

Personally, I think it's totally ridiculous and this really is political correctness gone absolutely MAD.

 

[DeletedUser]

What has the world come to? Take a step back and look at this.

Some lunatic in an America has his congregation(in its teens!) backing to burn a book basically. So people hundreds of miles away are rioting and people have been killed becuase of it! If people were'nt so rapped up in the power of religions they would be able to see how much of a farce this is.

I think its also nessesary to state that I have no hatred of Islam, I am just stating facts.

But not only that, Obama felt the need to achually have to say how terrible it was these books where getting burned. Personally, in a saner world it would have been wiser just to say, "yeah and?". Because now this guy has exactly what he wants. Publicity. If the media wasnt so sensitive about religion then the story never would have broke, becuase how often do newspapers make headline stories about the burning of books?

Its hard to decided whos worse, The fundamental Christian Terry Jones(yeah its a good joke...) for doing this or the fundamental Muslims who are rioting so violently about it.

What have the people in this world come to? Ignorant fools?

You'll find the majority of people in this world are Theists or at least Agnostics. You're being ignorant here considering that religion is part of humanity and, like other factors, fueled our 'wanting' to become a better human.

What this man is doing is wrong. Period. You yourself may be an Atheist and not believe in a 'God' or 'Creator' but the moral's behind this is still wrong.

Agnostic - Someone who is open to religion and open to religion but doesn't follow one.

Theist - A religious person.

Atheist - Completely closed to religious views.

On another point, if Obama had turned round a said "yeah and?" I'm almost certain he would've been removed from office almost immediately.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm not sure he's necessarily challenging belief although it does seem he's an athiest.
It's more of the age old question:
Does Religion do more harm than good?

People are willing to die and kill over their beliefs, even if someone believes that there is a god they are willing to kill them because it's not their god. Look at the crusades and multiple invasions of countries. Billions of people have died because of religious reasons, yet we cannot state that Religion has saved ANY lives at all.

Is it in fact that Religion causes more problems than it solves, especially in such a corrupt world.

On a side note: I can see why Terry Jones would be upset, I am quite aggrieved about the fact that a mosque/Islamic centre is being built so near to "ground zero," and I'm an athiest. It shows insensitivity and it's almost like the American muslims wanted to provoke a reaction out of the American public. Burning the koran is not the way to stop it happening though.

 

[DeletedUser]

My opinion is that although I think as a priciple there's nothing special about that book, burning it would cause a lot of damage. If it happens, it'll increase support for terrorists and generally worsen the many problems caused by religion already.

Also, book burning is never a good idea as it has strong links to various authoritarian regimes such as the nazis.

I think those involved should just grow up a bit. The pastor wanted attention so he decided to burn some holy books. An extremem muslim group said they'd burn American flags in return (not sure why, its only one American involved and the leaders of the country have stated its a bad idea).

 

[Nauzhror]

What have the people in this world come to? Ignorant fools?

You'll find the majority of people in this world are Theists or at least Agnostics. You're being ignorant here considering that religion is part of humanity and, like other factors, fueled our 'wanting' to become a better human.

What this man is doing is wrong. Period. You yourself may be an Atheist and not believe in a 'God' or 'Creator' but the moral's behind this is still wrong.

There are no morals behind it other than whose which you imagine there to be. The world does not have morals. People do. Every individuals morals are different from each other. For instance I see nothing wrong with burning the Koran, then again I also see nothing wrong with burning the Bible, the cross, or the American Flag. They are simple objects, they hold no power other than that which you give them.

On another point, if Obama had turned round a said "yeah and?" I'm almost certain he would've been removed from office almost immediately.

Doubtful. Very doubtful. Nothing happens "immediately" in this country. At worst it'd have led to something similar to when Clinton was impeached.

I can see why Terry Jones would be upset, I am quite aggrieved about the fact that a mosque/Islamic centre is being built so near to "ground zero," and I'm an athiest.

I see no problems with it. In fact I have more issues with people having problems with it than anything. Associating an group of people with a handful of individuals who had vague similarities with them is nothing but an extreme case of prejudice and ignorance in my eyes.

 

[DeletedUser]

[la]Its not even a mosque. And religious wars are so 500 years ago, seriously.
Also, Pastor Jones is a terrorist. Seriously. He uses threats (read: terror) to help him with his religious/political agenda.[/la]

 

[DeletedUser]

The terrorists were "acting in the name of Allah." Which to me associates Islam to the terrorist activities. Although I am quite well informed and of course I know the VAST majority of Muslims are good honest people, as I live in a highly-multi ethnic society where I believe the ratio of Immigrantseople already living here is 2:1. But then you hear about a house not far from where I live where explosives were being made, and low and behold it was owned by a muslim. Then you hear of another home-made explosive factory not far from that, and you start to wonder just how many terrorists are there out there.

I don't live in America, so i don't know what the public attitude towards Islam is out there, especially on the east coast. But i would imagine after 9/11 a lot of people would be quite upset. And so I believe that building a Mosque/Islamic centre that near to "ground zero" is asking for some sort of reaction, especially as they brought it up very close to 9/11 date.

But then again on the other hand, I have radical views where I believe America need to stop being the police of the world and stop dwelling on 9/11. So i can't make my own mind up.

What do you mean religious wars are so 500 years ago?! What do you think is going on now with Gaza Strip? and America have been inside and ravaged practically every country in the middle east, can you tell me that has nothing to do with religion either (although most of it is the oil..)

Oh, and no doubt Pastor Jones is a terrorist. But he is an extremist. He threatened to burn a holy book, there is outrage and rioting in the middle east with people dying and other people holding up signs saying "death to all Christians." And then a muslim kills 100s of people at a time and do we blame the whole religion for it? I don't..

 

[DeletedUser]

I think most rational people know that Islam as a whole did not back 9/11 and that it was only the view of a small part of them. Its just that the mosque is being built there because of the location (ground zero)

Muslims gain no advantage religiously in building the mosque there so they might as well build it elsewhere where it won't ignite prejudices.

 

[Nauzhror]

But then again on the other hand, I have radical views where I believe America need to stop being the police of the world and stop dwelling on 9/11.

I don't consider that all that radical. I am an American and agree with it wholly. I'd love it if our government stopped butting its head into every other country in the world's business. As for 9/11, it was a sad day, sure, but it was no worse than any other attacks that happen around the world and has gotten way more attention than it ever should have in my eyes.

 

[DeletedUser]

What have the people in this world come to? Ignorant fools?

You'll find the majority of people in this world are Theists or at least Agnostics. You're being ignorant here considering that religion is part of humanity and, like other factors, fueled our 'wanting' to become a better human.

I dont really understand this part...Sorry. You say most people are relgious and then are you saying I am ignorant to consider religion a part of humanity? I dont actually think it is a nessesity for humanity. As I am perfectly able to be a "better"(than many that are strong believers) human and living a good life without religion.Yes the moral foundations of religion are good for having a better society, but religion itself isn't required for this to exist. In fact as you can see in this case the problems that religion has caused have actually made becoming a "better human" harder to achieve becuase religion often finds itself claiming that it's church is right and others arent, which often leads to conflict.

What this man is doing is wrong. Period. You yourself may be an Atheist and not believe in a 'God' or 'Creator' but the moral's behind this is still wrong.

Yes. There is no doubting the fact that what he is doing is wrong, as Nauz says, religion creates a huge and significant power to simple objects. He has no right to dis-honour another persons belief. But thats exactly the problem with religion. It causes division in society because of the need for that church to be one true church of God which naturally causes tension. Imagine having two kids. Each one has to be the better son/daughter in their opinion. And if not then hell breaks loose between them!

Agnostic - Someone who is open to religion and open to religion but doesn't follow one.

Theist - A religious person.

Atheist - Completely closed to religious views.
Thanks for reminding me of these definitions....

On another point, if Obama had turned round a said "yeah and?" I'm almost certain he would've been removed from office almost immediately.

Fistly, that is why I said in a sane world. Becuase the normal world is mad and caught up in religion so it wouldnt be acceptable.

But anyway, thats exactly it! Can't you see that exactly how rediculous it has become! Relgion controlls everything. Everything. Of course he shouldnt say exactly "yeah and?" but just dismiss it as a story. Why should the President of one of the (if not the) most powerfull and influential countries in the world's tenour be decided on his religous views? Surely they should be somebody who can run a country. Organize the running of it and the facts of life and government and not novels!
If he was to dismiss the story in the current world. People automatically think. Oh he's anti Islam. Get rid of him/I want to have his babies.
But if he was to dismiss it in a normal world where religion didnt threaten and rule society. People would think. Well thats normal. Whats relgion got to do with running the country. Get on with your job mister!

If I was going to burn all the spaghetti in the world. Would it be silly if Pastafarians took outrage at this and that the story was a world wide breaking headline?

replies in red.

On a side note: I can see why Terry Jones would be upset, I am quite aggrieved about the fact that a mosque/Islamic centre is being built so near to "ground zero," and I'm an athiest. It shows insensitivity and it's almost like the American muslims wanted to provoke a reaction out of the American public.

Personally I see no logical reason why it shouldnt be constructed there. If it cant be constructed there, then why would you accept Muslims living that close to ground zero. So when should we expect that campaign. Should they be moved out of their homes becuase of the actions of fundamentalists in their religion? Your being very prejudice in that statement. Your assuming that all of Islam is in favour of the distaster on ground zero and that Muslims are doing this just to annoy their fellow American citizens. Also, are you trying to deny American Muslims the right to grieve about what happened. Where no Muslims hurt or affected by the attacks also?

What do you mean religious wars are so 500 years ago?! What do you think is going on now with Gaza Strip? and America have been inside and ravaged practically every country in the middle east, can you tell me that has nothing to do with religion either (although most of it is the oil..)

Personally I wouldnt even call whats happening in the Gazza strip a war. Its just murder plain simple murder(but make sure not to compare it whith Jewish concentration camps during the second world war becuase it's completely different..). Whys nothing being done? for the same reason why nothing is being done about Saudi Arabia. Not to do with terror. They play ball with the Americans. Yes, oil is a big part of it, which is why the support of the Saudis and Isreali's is needed by the americans to control the area.

Oh, and no doubt Pastor Jones is a terrorist. But he is an extremist. He threatened to burn a holy book, there is outrage and rioting in the middle east with people dying and other people holding up signs saying "death to all Christians." And then a muslim kills 100s of people at a time and do we blame the whole religion for it? I don't..

You say you dont blame the whole religion for it and you accept that it wasnt the whole of Islam that backed the 9/11 attacks. But you still dont allow the construction of a mosque. Sounds like you do blame or have a bit of a grudge against the whole relgion abit...

 

[DeletedUser]

Read my 2nd post where I elaborate about building the mosque near ground zero.

They brought it up very close to 9/11 when people will feel most "angry." They are building it very close to blast zone, usually I wouldn't disagree at all. But surely there are plenty of places where they could potentially build it? It seems odd to me that they choose a place that will obviously cause some sort of controversy. I am not blaming muslims AT ALL. I am accusing Imam Al-Amin Abdul Latif of some either disrespect, foul play or just plain thoughtlessness.

 

[DeletedUser]

Read my 2nd post where I elaborate about building the mosque near ground zero.

They brought it up very close to 9/11 when people will feel most "angry." They are building it very close to blast zone, usually I wouldn't disagree at all. But surely there are plenty of places where they could potentially build it? It seems odd to me that they choose a place that will obviously cause some sort of controversy. I am not blaming muslims AT ALL. I am accusing Imam Al-Amin Abdul Latif of some either disrespect, foul play or just plain thoughtlessness.

Well maybe they chose the area so close becuase thats where a large congration of Muslims live? Are they not permitted to have their relgious centre close to them? Whats the difference between having housing to accomadate Muslims living in the area and having a centre for them to use in the area? You can't say, yeah you can live there but not have things you require near there.

Also, I heard about these plans months ago. How far away from 9/11 do the plans need to be revealed for it to be an acceptable time?

 

[DeletedUser]

As I said before, it does seem to be more about location than anyhting else. Maybe they're trying to make a point, or perhaps someone just wants to stir up trouble. Just as we make allowances for religious ideas that seem stupid, outdated or prejudiced, we must allow the same for others who may object to the building of the mosque in that location

 

[DeletedUser]

The terrorists were "acting in the name of Allah." Which to me associates Islam to the terrorist activities. Although I am quite well informed and of course I know the VAST majority of Muslims are good honest people, as I live in a highly-multi ethnic society where I believe the ratio of Immigrantseople already living here is 2:1. But then you hear about a house not far from where I live where explosives were being made, and low and behold it was owned by a muslim. Then you hear of another home-made explosive factory not far from that, and you start to wonder just how many terrorists are there out there.

I don't live in America, so i don't know what the public attitude towards Islam is out there, especially on the east coast. But i would imagine after 9/11 a lot of people would be quite upset. And so I believe that building a Mosque/Islamic centre that near to "ground zero" is asking for some sort of reaction, especially as they brought it up very close to 9/11 date.

But then again on the other hand, I have radical views where I believe America need to stop being the police of the world and stop dwelling on 9/11. So i can't make my own mind up.

What do you mean religious wars are so 500 years ago?! What do you think is going on now with Gaza Strip? and America have been inside and ravaged practically every country in the middle east, can you tell me that has nothing to do with religion either (although most of it is the oil..)

Oh, and no doubt Pastor Jones is a terrorist. But he is an extremist. He threatened to burn a holy book, there is outrage and rioting in the middle east with people dying and other people holding up signs saying "death to all Christians." And then a muslim kills 100s of people at a time and do we blame the whole religion for it? I don't..

Religious fanatics work for all religions, people have killed in the name of Christianity. Like the Oklahoma bomber.

 

[DeletedUser613]

What has the world come to? Take a step back and look at this.

Some lunatic in an America has his congregation(in its teens!) backing to burn a book basically. So people hundreds of miles away are rioting and people have been killed becuase of it! If people were'nt so rapped up in the power of religions they would be able to see how much of a farce this is.

I think its also nessesary to state that I have no hatred of Islam, I am just stating facts.

But not only that, Obama felt the need to achually have to say how terrible it was these books where getting burned. Personally, in a saner world it would have been wiser just to say, "yeah and?". Because now this guy has exactly what he wants. Publicity. If the media wasnt so sensitive about religion then the story never would have broke, becuase how often do newspapers make headline stories about the burning of books?

Its hard to decided whos worse, The fundamental Christian Terry Jones(yeah its a good joke...) for doing this or the fundamental Muslims who are rioting so violently about it.

These people are dedicated to their religion, to burn their holy book is disrespecting them and a part of them.
So if in America some muslims started burning the american flag, some americans would go Crazy, because people have no right to disrespect them in that way.

It made news because its sensitive, muslims have been carrying out terrorists attacks, oh lets burn the book they use to worship there god, yeah then they wont bomb us any more!
Idiots really.

 

[DeletedUser]

Ah gota love it, stupidity at its best eh!

Wasn't the book being burned because there was going to be a muslim temple buit near the 9/11 site?

I might be wrong, thought thats what I heard, usual media twisting stuff. (Funny how the media essentialy controls most peoples views and opinions on certain aspects of life, but thats a story for another day)

Him burning that book(the Kuran is it?) he's basicly saying all muslim's are terrorist's, which I would hope you all know isn't true, thats like saying everyone in Britain is a 'Skinhead' becuase of where they live. Stupid stereotyping.
He's trying to project prejudiced and stereotyped views and make us discriminate against muslim's becuase a small(very small) portion of muslim's use terrorism as a way to get what they want. Fair enough that small group should be punished for there act of terrorism, but we only see it from our 'side' what about there 'side', all those innocent people men, women and children who suffer and die becuase our countrie bombs them? Then we moan and discriminate against them when they flee there country and come to ours. Makes me sick.

In short the dude doing the burning is a racist, if I ever saw him in real life and punch him. Idiots trying to create social exclusion.

 

[DeletedUser]

What has the world come to? Take a step back and look at this.

Some lunatic in an America has his congregation(in its teens!) backing to burn a book basically. So people hundreds of miles away are rioting and people have been killed becuase of it! If people were'nt so rapped up in the power of religions they would be able to see how much of a farce this is.

I think its also nessesary to state that I have no hatred of Islam, I am just stating facts.

But not only that, Obama felt the need to achually have to say how terrible it was these books where getting burned. Personally, in a saner world it would have been wiser just to say, "yeah and?". Because now this guy has exactly what he wants. Publicity. If the media wasnt so sensitive about religion then the story never would have broke, becuase how often do newspapers make headline stories about the burning of books?

Its hard to decided whos worse, The fundamental Christian Terry Jones(yeah its a good joke...) for doing this or the fundamental Muslims who are rioting so violently about it.

The said man in question I believe is doing something long over-due.

The Koran is a symbol to the Islamic religion. It is equal to the christian bible. It is a important religious document to the Islamic religion, and the Muslim world. I know that is a difference between muslims who blow themseleves up in the name of their religion and those who simply worship and pray to said religion.

I believe that said man who is burning the koran knows this difference. And so by burning the koran, is showing that America is deeply angered by the islamic religion, and those people who worship it to attack other countrys in the name of their religion, and their god, Allah.

Terrorists, those who attack us, whether it be a 9/11 or 7/7, or attacking our countrymen in Afganistan or Iraq, are doing what they did thousands of years ago. Remember the crusades, anyone? Religion has caused war, and believe me when I say this, Britain and America are at war. And so, again I say, that if a man who is burning the koran the same way isalmic people are burning our countrys flag, then so be it.

They burn our flags, chant "7/7 on its way" ect, then we should respond by burning something they cherish - the koran.

In conclusion, I am neutral in the sense that I don't care if people wish to spend their time by chanting their language over and over, worship a man I believe to not be real. But what I am not neutral, that I dispise, is when somebody will kill other, innocent people, in the name of their religion. And so when a man burns a religious book to symbolise, not to the entire religion as a whole, as I believe he hasn't meant to symbolise, but symbolise burning a religious book to show to the haters of the wrestern world that we can burn something you cherish too, then so be it.

Burn our flags, we burn your book. Simple!

 

[DeletedUser]

Might I also add to my statement that I am in agreeance that building a muslim religious building next to a site where a lot of people died in the name of said religion, should not be built. Okay, a mosque can be built, as there are muslims in every country, but to build one next to a site where people died from terrorists crashing plans into two important buildings in the name of their religion, is like a slap to the face.

 

[DeletedUser]

The said man in question I believe is doing something long over-due. I do not hate Islamic people, I am totally neutral to all religions. Being an athiest, I believe it is time that something like this did happen.

Hmm, so you agree that burning a religous book will stop terrorism ?
What does it achieve?
You say it achieves acknowledgement that America is angry for what happened.......hasn't the war done that? All the innocent people those army's kill? Bombing the crap out of thier towns? Its basicly a slaughter by a big bully and his m8s