DeletedUser613
Guest
Perhaps if the CIA didnt fund the taliban and al queda they wouldnt have to sacrafice innocent lives to get rid of them
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Perhaps if the CIA didnt fund the taliban and al queda they wouldnt have to sacrafice innocent lives to get rid of them
DeletedUser
Guest
Perhaps if the CIA didnt fund the taliban and al queda they wouldnt have to sacrafice innocent lives to get rid of them
Well.......thats a big statement to make....is there proof of this happening?
DeletedUser613
Guest
Well.......thats a big statement to make....is there proof of this happening?
Yes, its a widely known fact
DeletedUser
Guest
The Quran (thanks for correcting my spelling) was not written by God. It was written by Allah. Aplogises if I am wrong, but Allah was a man instructed by God to create the Islamic faith for all muslims to follow.
Whilst I agree that burning a book will not fool "the clever man", your are indeed pointing out a "line". Has the christian man in this case, crossed the line? Perhaps, but that is opinion, not fact. I have said this before and will say it again, opinion cannot be disputed. It is a persons opinion.
So if said mans opinion that the islamic faith has caused so much suffering, then so be it. But as I have stated, Islamic people have burned our countrys flag, and the religion itself, its followers, are responsible for the acts of 9/11 and 7/7.
Perhaps burning the Quran will allow terrorists to use propaganda against the whole islamic religion, but in the case that something like that does happen, does it not show how much of a hateful religion islam has become?
The old dispustes of Islam, Christainity ect, have just become modernised over the years. Religion, in my opinion, should be dispusted, and removed. If their was no religion, their would be no more of this bs.
Allah IS God. Allah is Arabic for God. Allah isn't a person. Allah = God. They are interchangeable words. The book was written by God himself, according to Islamic religion. There was no writer for that book. It was God's word. That is what is believed.
The fact is, provoking Muslims by burning their book will promote terrorism and ultimately make America lose their war against terrorism (not Islam as Obama rightly stated). What's the point in this kamikaze tactic? Its stupid and illogical.
Muslims are not terrorists. Attacks on the Muslim world, either literally or the burning of their sacred books is a grave offence against the religion, and that will TURN some into terrorists. But I reiterate, Muslims are not terrorists. They can simply be angered so heavily by Western actions (such as burning a Quran, or civilian damage when conducting airstrikes for example) that they BECOME terrorists. Its very important that people learn to understand that Muslims and terrorists are not the same, and most Muslims hate terrorists, even more so, as they are sometimes associated with them by ignorant people.
This is rapidly turning into an athesit's argument of "Why religion sucks" when atheists are not in the position to answer that question, since they are not knowledgeable on religion, only on the effects of its conflicts.
There are many social normalities that are restored by religion. For example, it is a rule that Muslims refrain from alcohol. Those who drink cannot call themselves Muslims.
An atheist would consider it mad to refrain from alcohol, when it is so wonderfully fun to consume. Yet, Muslims are not allowed to. Why? Its bad for you. Simple. Even not in excess, its bad for you.
Muslims fast. Christians fast too (I believe). Aside from increasing religious fervor, this helps to slim the body; a religious form of diet and restoring health. And so many normal people struggle to watch their health! And fasting like this slims you down in no time... assuming you have the willpower to do it.
Religion may cause wars and fighting and conflict, which is what is reported in the media for those who are atheists or whatnot to see and smugly feel how free they are from such issues. Yet where law, order & science fail, people turn to something to preserve their hope in this otherwise diabolical and unfair world. Religion keeps the hope of those who struggle everyday to feed themselves etc.
You'll find atheism is only common among those who are clothed and fed well, atheism is very rare among those who struggle with the 5 basic necessities of life. That is because if people did not believe there was something bigger and better in the world (God), I'm sure their psychology would be such that they all would commit suicide, due to having nothing of material value to have faith in, a luxury that only rich countries have (hence the higher concentration of atheists as a result).
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DeletedUser
Guest
Allah IS God. Allah is Arabic for God. Allah isn't a person. Allah = God. They are interchangeable words. The book was written by God himself, according to Islamic religion. There was no writer for that book. It was God's word. That is what is believed.
Yet, Adellion, there is no proof or fact of this happening, other than the words of a book. And simply put, books were man-made creation, and not the creation of God.
The fact is, provoking Muslims by burning their book will promote terrorism and ultimately make America lose their war against terrorism (not Islam as Obama rightly stated). What's the point in this kamikaze tactic? Its stupid and illogical.
This is specilation and we do not know this. We can only guess whether normal, peaceful Muslims ae either really peaceful or hateful, like islamic terrorists.
Muslims are not terrorists. Attacks on the Muslim world, either literally or the burning of their sacred books is a grave offence against the religion, and that will TURN some into terrorists. But I reiterate, Muslims are not terrorists. They can simply be angered so heavily by Western actions (such as burning a Quran, or civilian damage when conducting airstrikes for example) that they BECOME terrorists. Its very important that people learn to understand that Muslims and terrorists are not the same, and most Muslims hate terrorists, even more so, as they are sometimes associated with them by ignorant people.
Correct, Muslims are not terrorists. However, the terrorists in question that this debate has brought up, such as the 9/11 attacks, were islamic terrorists, attacking America in the name of their religion, Islam, and their God, Allah. This fact cannot be disputed, this is what happened.
But does this mean Islam as a religion were responsible for such an attack? No, that would be ignorance. The attack was done by crazed individuals. But yet, Islam as a religion will change due to the growing number of Islamic terrorists. Do you think the UK, the US and other European countrys have sent troops to police Afganistan and other Islamic/Muslim based countrys for the fun of it? No... Islam is growing in a way that the greater powers of the world do not like.
In conclusion to this point, it depends on the individuals of the Islamic faith, whether they will continue to co-exist as a peaceful religion, or a hateful one, that wages war on the greater world, whether through terrorist like attacks, or perhaps the countrys banding together against everyone else? (Iran for example, who have peed off a lot of people recently)
This is rapidly turning into an athesit's argument of "Why religion sucks" when atheists are not in the position to answer that question, since they are not knowledgeable on religion, only on the effects of its conflicts.
I am a athiest Adellion, and a human, just like a religious person. We all can think for ourseleves. Just because I am an Athiest, a person who does not believe in God, or a religion, does not mean that I cannot think freely and question whether "religion sucks".
Religion, in theory, is a basis where one believe in something. For Christianity and Islam, a God, or Allah. For Buddahism (Apologises for the spelling...) they believe in reincarnation before they move off the path of reincarnation into something or another.
Buddahism, is a peaceful religion. I cannot think of a single act or war where Buddahism was responsible. I can for Christianity and Islam. The Crusades to now. Why have these acts of violence happened? Because one wishes to imposer their religion on the peoples of the world. For this reason alone, religion sucks. Period.
As a peoples of today, I cannot believe people still believe in something or a religion, that has not been proven in a way whatsoever. Their is no historical evidence, and what I mean by evidence is concrete proof, of Jesus, God or Allah. Just two books, the Quran and the Bible, that tells us storys of our religion, and what we should do. In a way, religion is Policing us, suffocating humanity and holding us back. When humanity evolves beyond the point of need a God or a religion, it will be a good day for humanity.
There are many social normalities that are restored by religion. For example, it is a rule that Muslims refrain from alcohol. Those who drink cannot call themselves Muslims.
An atheist would consider it mad to refrain from alcohol, when it is so wonderfully fun to consume. Yet, Muslims are not allowed to. Why? Its bad for you. Simple. Even not in excess, its bad for you.
Muslims fast. Christians fast too (I believe). Aside from increasing religious fervor, this helps to slim the body; a religious form of diet and restoring health. And so many normal people struggle to watch their health! And fasting like this slims you down in no time... assuming you have the willpower to do it.
Correct, religion does these things, and some are good for you. But again, people do this because it says so in the Quran and the Bible. It is because of this, people are suffocated. Starving yourself for an entire day, with no water or food, is not good for you. It is infact very harmful.
I am an athiest, and I do not think it mad that others who do not drink, are mad. That was a silly thing to say, Adellion. Athiests are some cruel people who enforce their views on other people. In my personal opinion, Athiesm is a good thing. Not being suffocated, being told off, having to "fast", all these things to me, are bad.
I still remain inpassieve towards religion. I will never be religious, and I will be cremated when I die, not a funeral. That will be my dying wishes. Like I have said, I do not care if you believe in a God, if you follow a religion, if you wish to do the above said things. I have stated my views. I do not agree with religion and a God. But I hate if somebody wishes to impose their religion on me, someone else I know who I would assume doesn't want it imposed, or somebody crashing a plan into an important American building, full of innocent people. That for me, says a lot about religion. There are peaceful people, and there are hateful people, bred by religion in both ways.
Religion may cause wars and fighting and conflict, which is what is reported in the media for those who are atheists or whatnot to see and smugly feel how free they are from such issues. Yet where law, order & science fail, people turn to something to preserve their hope in this otherwise diabolical and unfair world. Religion keeps the hope of those who struggle everyday to feed themselves etc.
The news, our news, is reported to everyone. Athiest, agnostic and thiest alike. It is how we interpret the news, and view it. If I view the news, that a man in the British armed forces, has died in Afganistan, because of a stray bomb, or whatever, then I view that as another man who has died at war. Tragic, but he wouldn't be there before of another tragic attack. Our forces are in Afganistan due to terrorism. That said man has died, due to terrorism. Said terrorism attacks, 9/11 and 7/7, were due to islamic extrimists trying to enforce their religion via fear. Fear of death.
Hate leads to pain, which leads to revenge. Some of our men, our individuals in our armys, probably view "us" being in Afganistan, for example, as revenge. They have become biased, and that is due to these islamic peoples propaganding hate to every other muslim. Again, I state that "we" wouldn't be "there" if it wasn't for religion. Religion was a good thing, years and years ago, but not anymore. So much hate, fear, pain, revenge would not be there if it was not for religion, and these people who attacked us.
Meechan for example brought up the raised issue that innocent people have died to our hands, in Afganistan and Iraq for example, because our biased views. I respond that innocent people have died here, because of them. And it is "them". Islam has these extrimists, so as a group, it is "there" fault.
You'll find atheism is only common among those who are clothed and fed well, atheism is very rare among those who struggle with the 5 basic necessities of life. That is because if people did not believe there was something bigger and better in the world (God), I'm sure their psychology would be such that they all would commit suicide, due to having nothing of material value to have faith in, a luxury that only rich countries have (hence the higher concentration of atheists as a result).
Atheism is a rare thing. I hadn't even heard of atheism until 5 or 6 years ago. But thats due to my age. I have been an atheist since the age of 6 or 7. I have grown up with different aspects and has made me different. I have not grown up suffocated by religion, by religion fanitics, for example, my Grandmother.
I put forward what has God, religion, has done for say those suffering currently in Pakistan or Africa. That in itself can be considered proof God does not exist. "God does not intervene because of so and so". If God loved us in the concept that we put "Gods love" then he would intervene, stop the flooding in Pakistan, or the AIDs problem in Africa. He would allow us to live, to eat and not be hungry or thirsty. It says it all.
In conclusion, you do the maths. What has religion done for us? Create religious extrimists, who will blow up themseleves or crash plans to hurt other people. Of course, there is two sides to every argument, and created the peaceful side of religion. However, what does this do for us? Nothing. Not useful at all. These are my views, and I would love to debate with a truly religious muslim or christian.
Are you religious Adellion?
To add to my above statements, answered in the quote brackets above. I enforce that I don't care about religion, I care about those who commit attacks like 9/11. It is disgraceful, and disgusting. Religion, in theory, is about peace. If people are truly religious, 9/11 wouldn't of happened. 7/7 wouldn't of happened. Religion is more bad, than good. That is almost a fact, and will only need a few more attacks, which is likely to happen, like 9/11 and 7/7, to back this up.
DeletedUser
Guest
Yes, its a widely known fact
It is ? I never heard about that.
Is it just speculation? Is there actual proof of this happening?
DeletedUser
Guest
It is ? I never heard about that.
Is it just speculation? Is there actual proof of this happening?
There is no conccrete proof that the CIA is funding the tabliban ect
Consipracy theory and all that.
DeletedUser
Guest
Yeah I thought that, theres always consiperacy theories with stuff like this.........
DeletedUser613
Guest
There is no conccrete proof that the CIA is funding the tabliban ect
Consipracy theory and all that.
There IS concrete proof that the CIA supplied the Muhaijadeen, the terrorist in there at the time.
"
In mid-1979, about the same time as the Soviet Union deployed troops into Afghanistan, the United States began giving several hundred million dollars a year in aid to the Afghan Mujahideen insurgents fighting the Afghan Marxist government and the Soviet Army in Operation Cyclone. Along with native Afghan mujahideen were Muslim volunteers from other countries, popularly known as Afghan Arabs. The most famous of the Afghan Arabs was Osama bin Laden, known at the time as a wealthy and pious Saudi who provided his own money and helped raise millions from other wealthy Gulf Arabs.
As the war neared its end, bin Laden organized the al-Qaeda organization to carry on armed jihad in other venues, primarily against the United States — the country that had helped fund the mujahideen against the Soviets."
the less concrete bit is about them getting bin laden in to help, only because the US denies that, but of course they would.
DeletedUser
Guest
There IS concrete proof that the CIA supplied the Muhaijadeen, the terrorist in there at the time.
"
In mid-1979, about the same time as the Soviet Union deployed troops into Afghanistan, the United States began giving several hundred million dollars a year in aid to the Afghan Mujahideen insurgents fighting the Afghan Marxist government and the Soviet Army in Operation Cyclone. Along with native Afghan mujahideen were Muslim volunteers from other countries, popularly known as Afghan Arabs. The most famous of the Afghan Arabs was Osama bin Laden, known at the time as a wealthy and pious Saudi who provided his own money and helped raise millions from other wealthy Gulf Arabs.
As the war neared its end, bin Laden organized the al-Qaeda organization to carry on armed jihad in other venues, primarily against the United States — the country that had helped fund the mujahideen against the Soviets."
the less concrete bit is about them getting bin laden in to help, only because the US denies that, but of course they would.
It states the the US supplied the Afgans to fight the soviet Union, which is what the USA wanted to do. The Soviet union and the US had bad relations back then, so the USA looked at halting the Soviets by other means than directly going to war themselves.
The above does not prove that the CIA supplied Al-Qaeda.
DeletedUser613
Guest
It states the the US supplied the Afgans to fight the soviet Union, which is what the USA wanted to do. The Soviet union and the US had bad relations back then, so the USA looked at halting the Soviets by other means than directly going to war themselves.
The above does not prove that the CIA supplied Al-Qaeda.
" Afghan Mujahideen insurgents fighting the Afghan Marxist government and the Soviet Army"
Insurgents. Terrorists.
They were being funded before the soviets invade, the soviets invaded when the country was turning to civil war, due to USA's riling up, funding.
They got osama bin laden involded which then formed al qaeda
DeletedUser
Guest
" Afghan Mujahideen insurgents fighting the Afghan Marxist government and the Soviet Army"
Insurgents. Terrorists.
They were being funded before the soviets invade, the soviets invaded when the country was turning to civil war, due to USA's riling up, funding.
They got osama bin laden involded which then formed al qaeda
Bin Laden formed al qaeda tho, not the americans.
From what I can conclude the reason why America funded the Terrorists of that time was so that when the soviets invaded, the terrorist group would fight for them via manipulating them with money, weapons ect.
Which they are not atm.
DeletedUser613
Guest
Bin Laden formed al qaeda tho, not the americans.
From what I can conclude the reason why America funded the Terrorists of that time was so that when the soviets invaded, the terrorist group would fight for them via manipulating them with money, weapons ect.
Which they are not atm.
Which was why i said.
They got osama bin laden involed who later formed al qaeda :icon_neutral:
No, it was because they hated communists, they obviously just didnt care about the aftermath of the actual country
DeletedUser
Guest
Which was why i said.
They got osama bin laden involed who later formed al qaeda :icon_neutral:
No, it was because they hated communists, they obviously just didnt care about the aftermath of the actual country
This disliked communism, which affects certain "human rights". So be it if a country wishes to stop bad human conditions, which is what the soviet union did.
It wasn't the Americans fault bin laden formed al qaueda
DeletedUser613
Guest
This disliked communism, which affects certain "human rights". So be it if a country wishes to stop bad human conditions, which is what the soviet union did.
It wasn't the Americans fault bin laden formed al qaueda
Oh, so the human conditions are better when terrorists are going round and causing civil war??
They got him involved in afghanistan, which allowed him to take control of the chaos and form a strong organisation
DeletedUser
Guest
You guys need to watch Charlie Wilsons War. Soviets invaded, he lead a campaign for the money to go directly to getting weapons instead of getting lost and spent on crap. He secured a fortune for them :3
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