Virtus Pheonix rises

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DeletedUser

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pretty much this terror. He says we wanted to be Virtus badly. He and u should reread all of Jaigs posts. We did not want to be Virtus.

Do not Start to flame me because i didnt understand your Mixed words.

I have read all the posts Jason and the other have written, so do not confuse me with some Lacky that reads and comments on the lasts posts.

All i said was i didnt understand you very well. I ment no offence. i think i stated that
 

DeletedUser

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7 member councils fail, you illiterate idiot.
Democracy tribes fail, Dictatorship tribes are better...

Excuse me kind sir/ma'am but, I would like to know your reason for this statement. How are democracy tribes failures and Dictatorships better? Me and Karl(Cruddy17) on UK3 lead a small rim tribe in K65, we consider our members to be the best of the K, simply because we deny many daily and barely recruit anyone. Anyhow, Karl(crudz on these forums) or as you all may know him, Cruddy17/Baconpants/Voltan had led or co led many great tribes. He believes in a democracy based tribe. He does of course make the decisions that are supposed to be made by leaders although, he does ask for the tribes opinion on everything recruitment/diplomacy related. It has not failed him once in the many great tribes that he has led. I just really want to know why you believe dictatorship is a better leading style.
 

DeletedUser

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Its our style of running our tribe. works very well for us.

But if you're used to democratic rule, its a culture shock to suddenly have two guys you know little about come into your tribe and start changing things.

Its no reflection on TEAM or VIRTUS, both tribe leaderships wanted to try it out.

It didn't work.

No more to be said really.
 

DeletedUser

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Its our style of running our tribe. works very well for us.

But if you're used to democratic rule, its a culture shock to suddenly have two guys you know little about come into your tribe and start changing things.

Its no reflection on TEAM or VIRTUS, both tribe leaderships wanted to try it out.

It didn't work.

No more to be said really.

This is not what I asked. I ask why Jaigosian, not you, believes a dictatorship run tribe runs better then a democratic led tribe.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I totally agree with juke,

A highly democratic style worked for TEAM and a highly autocratic style worked for Virtus. If a style of leadership suits the tribe and its members then surely that is the correct style for the tribe. Each individual tribe ever created should be able to find a style that suits them, their is no 'right' and 'wrong' way to lead a tribe (in terms of style). The success of a tribe has far more important factors than the style used to lead it IMO.

Think of the merge and the un-merge as shoving two opposite ends of magnet together.

Mistakes were made, all players/leaders have to admit that. However a clear positive to it was the development of friendship and respect between the majority of the members in Virtus and TEAM, which may have not been as strong if the merge never occurred.
 
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DeletedUser

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Excuse me kind sir/ma'am but, I would like to know your reason for this statement. How are democracy tribes failures and Dictatorships better? Me and Karl(Cruddy17) on UK3 lead a small rim tribe in K65, we consider our members to be the best of the K, simply because we deny many daily and barely recruit anyone. Anyhow, Karl(crudz on these forums) or as you all may know him, Cruddy17/Baconpants/Voltan had led or co led many great tribes. He believes in a democracy based tribe. He does of course make the decisions that are supposed to be made by leaders although, he does ask for the tribes opinion on everything recruitment/diplomacy related. It has not failed him once in the many great tribes that he has led. I just really want to know why you believe dictatorship is a better leading style.


This is K64 but I agree.
There is no one way or another of success or failure, same as all aspects of this game.

You have to adapt. I know of plenty of Demcracies that have worked, as well as dictatorships.
That's a different discussion though.

......
This is where I should quote a couple people in order for my response to be directed but I'm hoping that although these people failed to comprehend my previous post, they will still know this is directed at them.

I was clearly just stating that I thought Virtus was a good tribe. One much better then TEAM. If you would like to take my "10 times" quotation so literally then feel free while I sit and roll my eyes.

You have a right to be defensive though, as I was stating that TEAM are a poor tribe, spending way too much time on the PnP flaming other players and complaining about breaching of rules in game at the players most would consider better than them.
It would appear that no-one's allowed an opinion other than the TEAM opinion.

Newsflash for TEAM, specifically that one person looking for an argument just about anywhere, you really aren't as good as you think you are.
The rest of UK2 realise it, it's about time you do as well.

Virtus > TEAM.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
pretty much this terror. He says we wanted to be Virtus badly. He and u should reread all of Jaigs posts. We did not want to be Virtus.

Virtus is Virtus

Team is Team

eclipse isnt trying to say you wanted to be virtus
what he was saying is he thinks virtus are better than you and better off without you
least that is what im seeing from his message
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I totally agree with juke,

A highly democratic style worked for TEAM and a highly autocratic style worked for Virtus. If a style of leadership suits the tribe and its members then surely that is the correct style for the tribe. Each individual tribe ever created should be able to find a style that suits them, their is no 'right' and 'wrong' way to lead a tribe (in terms of style). The success of a tribe has far more important factors than the style used to lead it IMO.

Think of the merge and the un-merge as shoving two opposite ends of magnet together.

If anything, a positive to it was the development of friendship and respect between lots of the members in Virtus and TEAM players, that may have not been as strong if merge never happened.


Absolutely agree Sam.

I'm sure Jaigosian will explain his views on it, when he can.

From my point of view, an autocratic style means decisions are made rapidly, where as a democracy can take some time to reach agreement, altho in my experience ( yes I have been in both style of tribes) democracies usually pull in the same direction.

The time issue can be critical when attacks start incoming en masse.

Having a leader at hand to make a quick decision, knowing that the other leaders will support his decisions, is vital.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
no point arguing with no it alls me thinks! as for the complete noob saying you wouldnt want to be in the same tribe as me THE FEELING IS MUTUAL !just because i dont take any crap from the self proclaimed greats in this world doesnt make me better or worse it makes me an individual,i cant say that for all the week ones who bow down and take in the keester just so they dont get flamed ..

as for the dictatorship dribble well the stats proove wich is better dont they !

TEAM RANK 1 in world = democracy
 

DeletedUser

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There's an awful lot of arguments in this threat considering the concept is really quite simple: The two tribes were run differently, and didn't work well when joined together. Neither is necessarily a better leading style than the other. They were meant to be separate, and they are now separate once again. Accept it and move on. XD
 

DeletedUser

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Well the reasons for which the merge didnt work out well have already been answered-

Its our style of running our tribe. works very well for us.

But if you're used to democratic rule, its a culture shock to suddenly have two guys you know little about come into your tribe and start changing things.

Its no reflection on TEAM or VIRTUS, both tribe leaderships wanted to try it out.

It didn't work.

No more to be said really.

And-

There's an awful lot of arguments in this threat considering the concept is really quite simple: The two tribes were run differently, and didn't work well when joined together. Neither is necessarily a better leading style than the other. They were meant to be separate, and they are now separate once again. Accept it and move on. XD

I dont think there is any further need for arguments or flaming. The good thing that happened with the merge was that both sides learnt that they were better off the way they were to begin with and some of TEAM and Virtus members developed mutual respect and friendship.
That being said i wish Jai and Juke and their new tribe well.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Excuse me kind sir/ma'am but, I would like to know your reason for this statement. How are democracy tribes failures and Dictatorships better? Me and Karl(Cruddy17) on UK3 lead a small rim tribe in K65, we consider our members to be the best of the K, simply because we deny many daily and barely recruit anyone. Anyhow, Karl(crudz on these forums) or as you all may know him, Cruddy17/Baconpants/Voltan had led or co led many great tribes. He believes in a democracy based tribe. He does of course make the decisions that are supposed to be made by leaders although, he does ask for the tribes opinion on everything recruitment/diplomacy related. It has not failed him once in the many great tribes that he has led. I just really want to know why you believe dictatorship is a better leading style.


I personally believe Dictatorships are better.
Bare in mind, there are different levels of Democracy and Dictatorships...

In this game a tribe needs, most of the time to be decisive and to act with speed to certain situations.

Democratic tribes (TEAM) still need 1 spokesman, somebody to act for the council, somebody to break a deadlock that might occur with certain discussions.

Dictatorship tribes (Virtus) still need to have the opinions of key members of the tribe, to make sure that every angle is covered.


I try to run a tribe as a Dictatorship.
This doesn't mean that I demand this and that...

I listen to players and send circular mails out several times a day usually, in the hope that ill get some feedback, to better the tribe im in.
If this feedback is fair and makes sense, then ill act accordingly and also let the rest of the tribe know who's idea it was, to hopefully try to encourage more players to step forward and offer their own ideas...

I try not to take the credit for the tribe doing well, after all the tribe is a collection of dedicated and active players... Not just me.
My tribe doing well and achieving a certain status and respect, is more then reward for me.


Im a Dictator that listens close to my members.
Its just that i got almost no feedback from the members of TEAM when i was there...
So i made the decisions off my own back.
Decisions had to be made, no one wanted to step up with alternatives, so what am i to do?

Do nothing...?
Or act, in what i thought were in the tribes best interests...?

I acted.
And for that, certain members of TEAM, didn't like me very much, they thought i was interfering...
Maybe i was, but i had the best intentions of the tribe at heart and i didn't directly benefit from anything i did, whilst i was there.

Simple as that.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Democratic tribes (TEAM) still need 1 spokesman, somebody to act for the council, somebody to break a deadlock that might occur with certain discussions.
7 member council = uneven amount of votes = no dead lock !
comon jaigosian enough burning TEAM eh man ?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
7 member council = uneven amount of votes = no dead lock !
comon jaigosian enough burning TEAM eh man ?

Lol thats exactly how my tribe is run... =]

7 Council, always online. So if any decisions are in need a quick Vote around.
Being a council of 7, you only need to get 3 votes in your favour, and your Decision is Granted.

And if using Skype, its about 2 mins slower that deciding it yourself, if using a dictatorship.

Anyway, because you all seem to want to discuss what tribe leadership is better, i shall Find that Post which i believe Jai made in the first place, And i shall bring it back to life.
(yes i am a Thread necromancer .. lol)

My reason for doing this is the fact many of us are going off topic.
=]
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I think we have all said a piece here, and many points raise, plenty to start a few more thread for sure.

Darth speaks his mind, sometime with more passion than needed but I personally will always expect that from people, To play this game with passion (and he does) is a gift.

Jaigosian I started to write this and looked at what I wrote for Darth and well you two have more in common that you may care to admit. The difference is that you decided what course of action your tribe takes.

Virtue and Team failed on one level only and that was at the top with Barons and Dukes, And there are many reasons for that some are public and some are not (and will stay that way Jaigosian and Darth)

All players both in Virtue and Team tried and should be recognised for the effort they put in.
And Team wish Virtue all the best for the future, hopefully the same will be said from them, but only time will tell.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I think we have all said a piece here, and many points raise, plenty to start a few more thread for sure.

Darth speaks his mind, sometime with more passion than needed but I personally will always expect that from people, To play this game with passion (and he does) is a gift.

Jaigosian I started to write this and looked at what I wrote for Darth and well you two have more in common that you may care to admit. The difference is that you decided what course of action your tribe takes.

Virtue and Team failed on one level only and that was at the top with Barons and Dukes, And there are many reasons for that some are public and some are not (and will stay that way Jaigosian and Darth)

All players both in Virtue and Team tried and should be recognised for the effort they put in.
And Team wish Virtue all the best for the future, hopefully the same will be said from them, but only time will tell.

This is true Travis. I know all our tribe wish Team all the best for the future.
 

DeletedUser3953

Guest
It took me awhile to get caught up, but this is how I interpret this thread:

1) The merge didn't work
2) People don't read posts the way they are written, i.e. the post that said virtus was 10 times the tribe TEAM was was interpretted as TEAM wanted to join Virtus 10 times over.
3) darthcalais would be internally nobled if I ran TEAM
4) Dictatorships always beat a 7 person democracy system, and there are very few pure dictatorships, all involve council input.
 
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