Archer World Build Guide

[Nauzhror]

Didn't he just say that?
The comparison... obsolete... because that's OE's guide for old worlds, which is why he didn't use arhcers.


OE has said that the OE strat is obsolete on simple tech worlds because it was designed for worlds where you're limited to 5x lvl 3 techs.

I meant that even if you had a 15-tech world with archers he still wouldn't have used them,. ie. It wasn't so much designed for non-acher worlds so much as specifically 15-tech. I doubt he'd have used archers even if it was on a archer/15-tech combination world.

all nukes fair better without Mounted Archers.

Not true. Typically 250-300 MA works quite well, but I'd never suggest using more than that figure.

 

[DeletedUser]

Not true. Typically 250-300 MA works quite well, but I'd never suggest using more than that figure.

Most definitely. I had discussed this with K9burn - Leader of BD (W30) on skype a few weeks ago and we was able to come to an agreement after a long discussion. I'll post it here if anybody's interested but generally speaking, and depending on your situation, have MA in your nukes (not much I must say) can help a great deal. I personally go with 320.

 

[DeletedUser]

But, just because you came to an agreement, that doesnt make you right, nor me.
I tried out a massive variety of defences against 1 pure light, and 1 mixed light and mounted.

Light cavalry came out on top each time. For both sims and stats.

As for rams, i ran a sim with 300 and 225 rams in each nuke, they both finished on the same nuke, but the nuke with 300 rams finished with less losses. Its mainly about striking a balance. Im sure sending 2 or 3 nukes with loads of rams, then the rest without is very useful, especially for timing.

 

[Nauzhror]

But, just because you came to an agreement, that doesnt make you right, nor me.
I tried out a massive variety of defences against 1 pure light, and 1 mixed light and mounted.

Light cavalry came out on top each time. For both sims and stats.

As for rams, i ran a sim with 300 and 225 rams in each nuke, they both finished on the same nuke, but the nuke with 300 rams finished with less losses. Its mainly about striking a balance. Im sure sending 2 or 3 nukes with loads of rams, then the rest without is very useful, especially for timing.

Pick a defense that has archers in it. I'll then show an offense using MA which shows that using MA in the nuke is a better idea than not to. Asking you to supply the defense so it is less biased (ie. me picking a specific defense in which what I'm stating is true when it usually isn't).

 

[DeletedUser]

Notice how all these defence builds are weak against Cavalry?
Not weak against Archers (except full barracks build).

Now unless MA are counted as Cavalry instead of Archers (which they are not) then i vote light only nukes.

Defences

Spear 8724
Heavy 2000
Build Time: 8.67 days
Def: 2,530,860 Cav: 1,352,580 Arc: 2,334,480

Spear 4222
Archer 3422
Heavy 2180
Build Time: 9.45 days
Def: 2,850,430 Cav: 1,373,270 Arc: 2,455,950

Spear 6908
Sword 6908
Archer 6908
Build Time: 26.86 days
Def: 794,420 Cav: 690,800 Arc: 449,020

Spear 11000
Archer 2224
Heavy 1250
Build Time: 13.73 days
Def: 1,776,200 Cav: 1,183,960 Arc: 1,581,120

Heavy 3454
Build Time: 14.97 days
Def: 4,144,800 Cav: 1,657,920 Arc: 3,730,320

Offences

Axe 6124
Scout 50
Light 3275
Ram 280
Build Time: 7.30 days
Off: 1,950,760

Axe 6124
Scout 50
Light 2900
Mounted 300
Ram 280
Build Time: 7.32 days
Off: 1,935,760

Thats all i can be bothered with for now =/
Mix in your own nukes too.
Prove me wrong.

 

[DeletedUser]

Notice how all these defence builds are weak against Cavalry?
Not weak against Archers (except full barracks build).

Now unless MA are counted as Cavalry instead of Archers (which they are not) then i vote light only nukes.

Defences

Spear 8724
Heavy 2000
Build Time: 8.67 days
Def: 2,530,860 Cav: 1,352,580 Arc: 2,334,480

Spear 4222
Archer 3422
Heavy 2180
Build Time: 9.45 days
Def: 2,850,430 Cav: 1,373,270 Arc: 2,455,950

Spear 6908
Sword 6908
Archer 6908
Build Time: 26.86 days
Def: 794,420 Cav: 690,800 Arc: 449,020

Spear 11000
Archer 2224
Heavy 1250
Build Time: 13.73 days
Def: 1,776,200 Cav: 1,183,960 Arc: 1,581,120

Heavy 3454
Build Time: 14.97 days
Def: 4,144,800 Cav: 1,657,920 Arc: 3,730,320

These are not realistic defenses.

Infantry (inc. archers) is always used for stacking, long term.
HC is used for quick shifting of defenses.

You're relying too much on the availability of HC. If you removed it from those builds, anything with archers would be weak to mounted archers (but then it'd be especially strong against conventional nukes; those without MA).




Attacker Units: 0 0 7000 0 0 2600 320 0 300 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 7000 0 0 2600 320 0 300 0 0 0
Defender Units: 0 10000 0 10000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 0 5794 0 5794 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Damage by rams: The wall has been damaged and downgraded from level 20 to level 12


Attacker Units: 0 0 7000 0 0 3000 0 0 300 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 7000 0 0 3000 0 0 300 0 0 0
Defender Units: 0 10000 0 10000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 0 5867 0 5867 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Damage by rams: The wall has been damaged and downgraded from level 20 to level 12




And another:
Attacker Units: 0 0 7000 0 0 2600 320 0 300 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 7000 0 0 2600 320 0 300 0 0 0
Defender Units: 10000 0 0 10000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 5354 0 0 5354 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Damage by rams: The wall has been damaged and downgraded from level 20 to level 13

Attacker Units: 0 0 7000 0 0 3000 0 0 300 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 7000 0 0 3000 0 0 300 0 0 0
Defender Units: 10000 0 0 10000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 4902 0 0 4902 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Damage by rams: The wall has been damaged and downgraded from level 20 to level 13




Attacker Units: 0 0 7000 0 0 2600 320 0 300 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 7000 0 0 2600 320 0 300 0 0 0
Defender Units: 100000 100000 0 100000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 949 949 0 949 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Attacker Units: 0 0 7000 0 0 3000 0 0 300 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 7000 0 0 3000 0 0 300 0 0 0
Defender Units: 100000 100000 0 100000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 927 927 0 927 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0






Also, you provided 1 build weak to archers (the only without HC)...
Attacker Units: 0 0 7000 0 0 3000 0 0 300 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 7000 0 0 3000 0 0 300 0 0 0
Defender Units: 6908 6908 0 6908 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 3525 3525 0 3525 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Damage by rams: The wall has been damaged and downgraded from level 20 to level 13

Attacker Units: 0 0 7000 0 0 2600 320 0 300 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 7000 0 0 2600 320 0 300 0 0 0
Defender Units: 6908 6908 0 6908 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 3600 3600 0 3600 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Damage by rams: The wall has been damaged and downgraded from level 20 to level 13

Attacker Units: 0 0 7000 0 0 1000 1600 0 300 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 7000 0 0 1000 1600 0 300 0 0 0
Defender Units: 6908 6908 0 6908 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 3917 3917 0 3917 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Damage by rams: The wall has been damaged and downgraded from level 20 to level 12

Attacker Units: 0 0 7000 0 0 0 2400 0 300 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 7000 0 0 0 2400 0 300 0 0 0
Defender Units: 6908 6908 0 6908 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 4084 4084 0 4084 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Damage by rams: The wall has been damaged and downgraded from level 20 to level 12



/Point

 

[DeletedUser]

These are not realistic defenses.

Yes they are.

Also, you provided 1 build weak to archers (the only without HC)...
Attacker Units: 0 0 7000 0 0 3000 0 0 300 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 7000 0 0 3000 0 0 300 0 0 0
Defender Units: 6908 6908 0 6908 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 3525 3525 0 3525 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Damage by rams: The wall has been damaged and downgraded from level 20 to level 13

This is very similar to your 'likely' defences.

Not weak against Archers (except full barracks build).

Let me try make something clear here.

Spear 6908
Sword 6908
Archer 6908
Build Time: 26.86 days
Def: 794,420 Cav: 690,800 Arc: 449,020

Spear 10362
Archer 10362
Build Time: 26.32 days
Def: 673,530 Cav: 880,770 Arc: 259,050

Sword 10362
Archer 10362
Build Time: 30.76 days
Def: 1,036,200 Cav: 569,910 Arc: 466,290

OR

Spear 8724
Heavy 2000
Build Time: 8.67 days
Def: 2,530,860 Cav: 1,352,580 Arc: 2,334,480

If you want to spend a month building 1 defence, for a weaker defence in all attributes, thats fine by me . Sure, when you ARE facing someone with a full Barracks defence, then MA are useful, the variant is up to 12.5% more powerful. But can you honestly say you would build weaker nukes on the off chance your enemy has only spear, sword and archers? Or can you honestly tell me you would only build only spears, swords and archers for your defence? Oh and yes, thats 1 month on a Speed 2 world, with a level 25 Barracks!!

 

[DeletedUser]

@ Op:

Spoiler: Mounted Archers

It's not uncommon to find nukes consisting of just mounted archers, to destroy noob-like "omg archers are win" villages. This simulation used the same amount of population as yours did; about 26k.
I forgot to add the cats in, but even with them it only kills 1.6k of each LC and MA. Just a point.

 

[DeletedUser871]

Hey sasuke nice to see u here on TW UK hope we can work together with murkt , I3AK LUSTEr on w2 or 3.Anyway nice guide

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes they are.


This is very similar to your 'likely' defences.


Let me try make something clear here.

Spear 6908
Sword 6908
Archer 6908
Build Time: 26.86 days
Def: 794,420 Cav: 690,800 Arc: 449,020

Spear 10362
Archer 10362
Build Time: 26.32 days
Def: 673,530 Cav: 880,770 Arc: 259,050

Sword 10362
Archer 10362
Build Time: 30.76 days
Def: 1,036,200 Cav: 569,910 Arc: 466,290

OR

Spear 8724
Heavy 2000
Build Time: 8.67 days
Def: 2,530,860 Cav: 1,352,580 Arc: 2,334,480

If you want to spend a month building 1 defence, for a weaker defence in all attributes, thats fine by me . Sure, when you ARE facing someone with a full Barracks defence, then MA are useful, the variant is up to 12.5% more powerful. But can you honestly say you would build weaker nukes on the off chance your enemy has only spear, sword and archers? Or can you honestly tell me you would only build only spears, swords and archers for your defence? Oh and yes, thats 1 month on a Speed 2 world, with a level 25 Barracks!!

I don't know where you're getting your figures for HC...

HC/spear is not stronger than sw/sp, and both archer/sword and spear/archer combinations are stronger than sw/sp, except when there are mounted archers in the nuke.


And no, they're not realistic builds.
I'll take an example of what one player from a tribe I've been on this world in has said...

offensive :
7000 axe
3000 lc
300 rams

defensive 1:
10,000 spear
10,000 sword
10-100 rams [for faking]

defensive 2:
5000 sword
2600 hc

scout:
10000 scout


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Villages with one type of defence.


Hc village- 3500 hc rest of farm space nobles.
Lc village- 4000 lc.
Spears and archers village- 5000 spears,rest of farm space archers.
Swords and caverly village- 5000 swords,rest of farm space hc.
Archers village- 2000 archers.

Note how LC was put in as defense.

There are a lot of noobs in these games.
A LOT.

You did not provide realistic defenses, when you consider that players rarely play efficiently and most of them rely upon advice from those with more experience (which isn't always good).

 

[DeletedUser]

Ahh it seems i had my totals multiplying from the wrong cell.
That would explain a lot of your argument by itself.

As for being unrealistic defences, i wouldnt plan to fight a bad enemy, i would plan to fight a good one. Your final quote is very similar to my own, incase you hadnt noticed, so i dont see your point there. You said its not unrealistic, and then provide the same builds, with very slightly different numbers.

Heavy + Sword is a combination i had not thought of, so because i missed that out, all the others are unrealistic? This is the main problem i have with your argument. Building faster and moving faster is how you beat someone defensively. Im sure you already know this, but if someone hits you with a nuke, and its a stalemate, both sides die 100% (yes that happened to me once). Then who will win in the long run? The player rebuilding for 26-30 days, or the player rebuilding for 9? This is why Heavy cavalry are both useful, credible and realistic units to build into your defence.

 

[DeletedUser]

Building faster and moving faster is how you beat someone defensively. Im sure you already know this, but if someone hits you with a nuke, and its a stalemate, both sides die 100% (yes that happened to me once). Then who will win in the long run? The player rebuilding for 26-30 days, or the player rebuilding for 9? This is why Heavy cavalry are both useful, credible and realistic units to build into your defence.

It's my opinion that frontline villages should be constantly recruiting.

On world 8, .net... here's how I do things.

A village on the frontline recruits the quickest defense possible. Once this village is full, the catapults are sent off to attack someone, and replaced with stronger defensive units (per count of population). Then when I need to support, I send mainly HC and replace them with swords. This means that once a village is full, the defense gets stronger and more stable.

The ultimate goal here is to keep the villages I have. To do this, I need quick defense, but also a defense that can withstand as many nukes as possible (when stacked).

So, villages not on the frontline, being too far for quick support, are built slowly with a stronger defense. Having no archers on world 8, this is just sw/sp.

So, all D villages have 10360 sw/sp to send as support, unless they're on a frontline.

When I send this as support I send small amounts of support from a large number of villages, to minimise individual village losses and spread the rebuild across mutliple barracks'..

So, my non-frontline defense rarely has to be rebuilt, or if it does, it's in small amounts which rebuild quickly across several villages. It's also quite a bit stronger and a fair bit cheaper.

Sp/HC simply doesn't compare

Which would you rather have a player support you with, from 2-3 K's away... 800k spears, 200k HC, or 1 million swords and spears?

 

[DeletedUser]

This has turned into a village strategy, I like it. Can't argue with that. But my point about build time still stands, and I think you agree already

Thanks for the tips.

 

[Nauzhror]

Which would you rather have a player support you with, from 2-3 K's away... 800k spears, 200k HC, or 1 million swords and spears?

That depends, the spears and swords may arrive at the village far too late to be of any use at all.

 

[DeletedUser]

That depends, the spears and swords may arrive at the village far too late to be of any use at all.

Without swords, the support on the whole moves faster

Layering is a great thing for reducing build times.

 

[DeletedUser]

That depends, the spears and swords may arrive at the village far too late to be of any use at all.

Late game it's almost always possible to buy an extra ~48 hours at the cost of local troops.

If the attacker sends normal trains, stack 20k sw/sp before the first noble/after all of the nukes, or snipe it with a few thousand sw/sp. Killing the entire train buys 12 hours plus travel time. Killing part of the train, whilst less expensive, usually only buys the travel time. Pre-nobling and recapping can buy a few days.

Any decent player with a cluster near a non-aligned tribe should have local troops in that cluster. All in all, the extra solidarity provided by the swords when they arrive, is worth the slight delay.

 

[DeletedUser]

just a quick note on w1.co.uk these are the individual farm space valueas for each troops enjoy

note sword are better than hc in all defence PER FARM SPACE and the attack is equal they als cost slightly less barr the clay so for non urgent support better to use them

agree on the point in urgent situations hc are very valuable