Who cares if you have 10 players on your account or only one? What matters is: when it sends attacks and upgrades buildings. When I first started this world I only joined to gather some data for developing BRE version 2 (been waiting on approval for a while now - has significant changes so I submitted it in a new thread). I sent attacks 3-4 times a day. Since I restarted, I've actually been playing while I'm online. Which is an attack wave in the morning, an attack wave at lunch, and a 5-6 hour chunk of on-and-off playing in the afternoon/evening. I doubt those solo players were less active than me - in fact I'd bet they were logging in every hour or two while they were awake to send some attacks. And I would even bet that they were account sat at night. I know Nauzhror claims that as "inactivity." But in my book, that's "high activity."
There were quite a few solo not sit accounts (nauz was one early on). But there were at least 2 others. All three outperformed you.
A 5-6 hour chunk of playing is more than I get daily (solo), not to mention breakfast and lunch runs. I'm can get 2 full troop sends out, one when I get on, one when I get off. Sometimes I can get a third in the mornings, but that is rare.
Care to continue?
Let's also not forget - the amount of farms in range. Do you really expect me to be on par when I don't even get a third of the map you get in the core? And I still have people nearly right next door in BP. And the annoying farming neighbors already have armies so I can't just blitz them. This isn't the same as restarting 2 days into the world because you're afraid of a little competition.
Ok - I take issue with these claims of "activity doesn't matter on this world". Either you have no clue on the workings of this game or you're pushing propaganda to make your tribe look amazing.
the world starts:
after playing 6 days, the player logging in 3x a day would have around 250 troops with a basic village and slightly upgraded barracks.
Since I started over, I've been playing a lot more often than that (but still - nowhere near the capabilites of a nonstop account). After 6 days I have 5 times those troops (also upgraded to lvl 2) and doing the hq sprint.
So what if both players have constant queues? By the time the 3x-a-day player gets lcav researched, I'll be upgrading units to lvl 3 and pushing for siege equipment.
Now please try and argue to me that extreme activity doesn't give a stupid advantage to the top-tier players during the first month.
PS
I'm not claiming that you had any nonstop ttp accounts. Actually it was quite obvious to me after a few days that none of them were.
Beautiful Lies on 06.06. at 18:57
There's always a fair amount of luck involved when joining a new world in regards to your location. Your luck has yet to be decided as your area is both potentially very lucky and potentially very unlucky. I have been rank 1 on 4 .uk worlds, 13 .net worlds, 2. de worlds, 1 .us world, and 1 .se world. If you should choose to stay in this area you will be outgrown, out-trooped, out-farmed, and just generally outplayed; especially since this account is co-played by not only me, but Purple Predator who is quite likely even better than me. This will most likely result in you becoming my farm, or on the off chance that you're really good, my noble target. On the other hand should you choose to restart you might later consider having started near me initially to have been quite lucky due to the help and advice I am willing to give those that choose to restart to help them dominate their new area.
tl;dr version: Restart for your own good.
~Nauzhror
cheesasaurus on 06.06. at 21:27
I also have, my own team. You will make progress too slow to get snob.
I never said activity didn't matter. ^^ I said you don't need absurd activity to keep constant queues on a 0.5 world. You only need to que half the amount of troops/buildings to keep queues 24/7. Let's say you need 500k resources to keep all queues running constantly and be able to HQ rush. The player logging in 3x a day achieves this and his queues are running 24/7. The player logging in 9x a day, let's say, get 1.5M res? He uses 500k to keep his queues running and to HQ rush, but the extra resources are of little benefit to his queues and would usually result in a red warehouse. The extra resources don't even matter was there are constant noble packets; easy enough to have a steady supply of nobles.
My quote, which you did take out of context, was referring to the fact you didn't need activity while sleeping to keep queues running throughout that time. Activity during the day was not taken into consideration; assuming both players would be able to the farm that minimum 500k.
I never said activity didn't matter. ^^ I said you don't need absurd activity to keep constant queues on a 0.5 world. You only need to que half the amount of troops/buildings to keep queues 24/7. Let's say you need 500k resources to keep all queues running constantly and be able to HQ rush. The player logging in 3x a day achieves this and his queues are running 24/7. The player logging in 9x a day, let's say, get 1.5M res? He uses 500k to keep his queues running and to HQ rush, but the extra resources are of little benefit to his queues and would usually result in a red warehouse. The extra resources don't even matter was there are constant noble packets; easy enough to have a steady supply of nobles.
My quote, which you did take out of context, was referring to the fact you didn't need activity while sleeping to keep queues running throughout that time. Activity during the day was not taken into consideration; assuming both players would be able to the farm that minimum 500k.
To complete this example, the only (and I do in fact mean the only) reason more resources are helpful in terms of points, is that you can go with a higher HQ. However, that is the difference between rank 1 and 5, not rank 15 and 20, and certainly not 1 and 50, or even 45 and 50.
I also disagree with this statement, cheese is better than you zard. Quick poll in tribe chat showed that everyone who was on then agreed with me on that :S
I agree with Cheese's comments that activity is still needed on this world, however it isn't as needed as normal obviously. Half as much would logically be needed but the settings influence strategy to more resource-burning strategy and so I would randomly and arbitrarily set the required activity as around 70% of the activity required on a 1 speed 1 unit speed world.
I also disagree with this statement, cheese is better than you zard.
I agree with Cheese's comments that activity is still needed on this world, however it isn't as needed as normal obviously. Half as much would logically be needed but the settings influence strategy to more resource-burning strategy and so I would randomly and arbitrarily set the required activity as around 70% of the activity required on a 1 speed 1 unit speed world.
he also has an iq of 130 or 140 depending at which point in time you talked to him, and if you choose to believe people talking about their intelligence on the internet.
I assume you don't. So his opnion holds more weight than yours!
}
And by he i mean zard
Activity does matter. But on a .5 speed world, it's less important to play successfully. Yes, a 24/7 account will be a 10 hour account of the same skill level. But, as AP has stated you don't have to have extreme activity to keep 24/7 queues. Yes, extreme activity is advantageous.
I also disagree with this statement, cheese is better than you zard. Quick poll in tribe chat showed that everyone who was on then agreed with me on that :S
I agree with Cheese's comments that activity is still needed on this world, however it isn't as needed as normal obviously. Half as much would logically be needed but the settings influence strategy to more resource-burning strategy and so I would randomly and arbitrarily set the required activity as around 70% of the activity required on a 1 speed 1 unit speed world.
Yet no one could give a reason, other than technical knowledge, which I apparently have more of than him, because I am correcting his opinions simultaneously on here and .net.
oh and:
[7/9/2011 2:13:53 PM] cheesasaurus: well if you could get away with such a high portion of spears, i see how you would outgrow me
[7/9/2011 2:14:02 PM] cheesasaurus: gratz
[7/9/2011 2:14:11 PM] cheesasaurus: im a noob
apparently splitting 11/4 sp/sw is an obscenely high proportion of sp to sw, rimside.
Yet no one could give a reason, other than technical knowledge, which I apparently have more of than him, because I am correcting his opinions simultaneously on here and .net.
Opinion isn't actually required to be stated for the point we were making, everyone thinks Cheese is better, so stating that Wardy's opinion isn't that of the majority is incorrect.
ah, sorry admiral phoenix
I wrongly assumed that your tribe claimed its success wasn't a result of higher activity. Of course there's a point where additional farming won't let you grow faster.
zarddeath200 said:
apparently splitting 11/4 sp/sw is an obscenely high proportion of sp to sw, rimside.
Anyone that spent a couple minutes trying to figure out the best pillaging infantry would tell you "spear fighters." You seem to think that this somehow eluded me?
I've built around 500 spears before any other infantry and gotten away with it before. I've also gotten away with builing mines to level 30 before recruiter stations in SDS. But that's not about some simple "technical knowledge" on the way the game works. It's metagame: guessing the actions of your opponents and adapting to them. "Yes, this could be the fastest way to proceed. But will it work?"
If you join and see this on your map:
*neighbor with 1500 points about rank 50
*neighbor with 1100 points about rank 100
*several smaller neighbors that have already been recruiting troops for a week+
*small selection of villages to farm
*you already played for a bit and found you could only get about 40 minutes of production on average when farming, and had information that other players around the world were in simular situations...
Would you expect to be able to raid 3 and a half hours of production from those farms and recruit 11/4 spears/swords?
If you would, then congratulations: in the same situation, you would have outgrown me.
But guess what? The newbie that didn't consider what his opponents were doing would have outgrown even you with his spears. Because those neighbors turned out to be barely farming.
oh... the absurdity of this statement... my opinion cannot be "corrected." It can be changed, but only by correcting the facts that it's derived from or presenting new information.
If you're referring to the "build time reduce" option on some servers... telling me that someone disagrees presents no new information to me. My opinion remains unchanged. So you've failed to "correct my opinion."
If someone is an expert in a field where I have little knowledge, I'd take their advice. If my doctor tells me I need some medicine then I'll blindly follow his advice and take it. But if I'm a doctor and a colleague claims something that I don't agree with... I'm going to stick with my opinion unless he gives sufficient reasoning.
I go to doctor A and he advises me one thing.
I go to doctor B and he advises me the opposite.
Well, I now have a choice
*choose one of these doctors and blindly follow what they advise
*ask more doctors and maybe there will be some concensus - perhaps the majority are correct and I live - but what if the minority are correct and I die?
*do some of my own research and arrive at my own opinion.
One expert claims, "this is useless"
ok - so the population decides its useless without bothering to think about it.
But wait! Another expert claims, "yes, its of little use in certain situations - but in other situations it is useful!"
Now it's obvious that the second expert doesn't give a rat's ass about changing the first expert's opinion - but hopefully some of the population will reconsider and do a bit of their own research.
I understand why so many players would claim me to be better. Very few players knew the basics of the game - it was no fun winning just because nobody else knew how to play. So I passed on a few tips and tricks here and there. A lot of these guys learned a few things from me. Yes, even the mighty zarddeath learned a few things from me.
I bet there's a high amount of players by now with the same basic knowledge of the game. Anyone that's read my posts in the forums should at least have something similar. But its what they do with that knowledge that I consider as determining their "skill."
In COD i can kill my friend that doesn't yet know what button to press to shoot his gun. Wow! Ok, he figures out how to shoot. But now he doesn't know how to aim down the sights and just sprays everywhere and never hits me. Still no fun - so I let show him all of the controls. (tw interface)
A little more fun now - but its still easy because when I spot him I can get in postion to kill him. But when he spots me he can't maneuver to get the kill. Never mind going into teams and playing for objectives. He can't do offense because he doesn't know how to navigate. He can't do defense because he doesn't know how other people can navigate. So I show him the maps. This takes a lot longer and he still has to play quite a bit before he's truly familiar with them. (tw mechanics)
Alright so he's a lot better - but he still tries to shoot people with pistols at long range, use a scoped rifle on a target 5 feet away, tries to stab people who spot him 30 feet away, etc. So I show him which weapons to use for different situations (basic tw tactics)
Ok - he's got the basics down. Now its fun. But I'm still more experienced and constantly improve so I continue winning for a long long time until either the learning curve evens off and we become equals, or he eventually surpasses me for some time from superior learning (but without changes in the game - we will eventually be equals again).
zarddeath very well could be a better player than me. Though I personally doubt it - I've put unhealthy amounts of time into this game researching, theorizing, and testing how to play different situations spanning throughout the game. Plays spanning throughout several months at a time. I've played over 60 servers of various nationalities - (if I recall - only 3 or 4 of them were within the past 2 years. I'm cured of my obsession). The only other person I know of that had such an unhealthy obsession was jamm. When I heard about him I researched him and I'd never seen someone with such a similar approach to the game. I heard about another player, purple predator, and I researched him as well. PP calculates things and can do some planning, but he just doesn't seem to think things through as in-depth. As it stands: there is only one player I consider to have similar skill - jamm.
still, like I said, it's possible. Chess master Donald Byrne was outplayed by a 13 year-old boy genius in 1956. Zarddeath achieved an iq of 140. I wouldn't claim myself as a genius. I consider myself a pretty slow thinker but I have the determination to understand and apply.
Nine year-olds are faster at multiplication than me. I can't even remember multiplication tables past five. If you asked me what 6*7 was i would stop and think, "six times seven is equivilant to 5*7 + 1*7 = 35+7 = 42." When I read about zarddeath's IQ I was curious and took some free internet tests. For some of the questions, the answer was immediately obvious by just glancing at it. Others, supposed to take under twenty seconds, took me a couple minutes to figure out.
All in all I only have an IQ around 120. That doesn't sound much lower than zard but if you think about it, IQ is scaled on a bell curve. If I'm not mistaken, based on IQ, Zarddeath200 is over 3 times "smarter" than I am.
zarddeath200 said:
oh and:
[7/9/2011 2:13:53 PM] cheesasaurus: well if you could get away with such a high portion of spears, i see how you would outgrow me
[7/9/2011 2:14:02 PM] cheesasaurus: gratz
[7/9/2011 2:14:11 PM] cheesasaurus: im a noob
You're comparing apples and oranges. You claim me as a noob because some growth on some other world outperformed my growth on this world. Then you bastardized what I said - i meant that it's obvious to me that you grew faster when you made a higher portion of spears than I did - not that it was a high amount for your situation. But I'm still curious about the activity of the solo players that did outperform me on this world. I'm always trying to improve so if they have something to teach me, I'll gladly become the student once again.
I know. So many words and no mention of Birds! :icon_cry:
cheesasuarus, you got through a lot of effort to prove a point. However, in my opinion, "skill" in TW is very subjective, much like asking someone about the best piece of music or art in the world. I believe that if a player can demonstrate the basic skills at this stage, then he's a decent player. However, others might say that unless he can demonstrate those same skills in a late game situation, he's not on par with those who can. So if you take a player like jamm, who meticulously timed when he should upgrade and what, yet his growth was still matched by Tim who, as you said yourself, put a lot less effort into calculating. While jamm had immense knowledge of TW mechanics, it doesn't matter if he can't apply that knowledge in situations; like you said, metagame.
Bottom line: I think Tim could keep pace with jamm if not surpass him.
Oh, IQ isn't a measure of intelligence. Anyone who says it is lacks enough intelligence to make his opinion worthless.
You mention the straw man... take a moment and consider how you're rating my ability.
I wasn't claiming you to make a poor choice on startup - I was explaining why my choice didn't indicate me to be clueless. But you're mistaken if you think I didn't adapt once I determined the farming patterns of my region (though by then if we were playing head to head in the same situation you would already have a considerable lead).
Claiming, "Not all sheep are white" would not refute the statement, "All sheep are white." However, if I showed you a black sheep, you would surely change your opinion. I was looking for some evidence from somebody who plays midgame the way I do. So my opinion remains unchanged. As I tried to explain (however poorly) - empirical evidence has no value to me when it comes to TW. But really you can't refute my opinion. I'm the one that would need to refute yours - which I'm not going to do. So we will continue to disagree until you realize what I was referring to or I test my theory and find I was mistaken.
I never claimed that a good player couldn't use his knowledge. Actually the opposite: The best players are the ones that are in tune with the game and can apply their knowledge to bring success. Obviously when two players with similar approaches to the game and both in tune face off, the one with more knowledge will be at an advantage.
I compare myself to jamm because as far as I know: my approach and the way I think is most comparable to his. How many times have I been #1 on a regular server? Zero. So there we go - we are both general failures. But I seem to remember a server with very similar settings to this one, where he was #1, restarted, and lapped PP on his own.
As far as always adapting and improving myself - I wasn't being sarcastic. I'm genuinely interested in learning how the better players approached their situation and what was going through their minds.
I thought the Admiral Phoenix was going to burst into song there for a moment. What's the word?
A-well-a everybody's heard about the bird
B-b-b-bird, bird, bird, b-bird's the word
A-well-a bird, bird, bird, the bird is the word
A-well-a bird, bird, bird, well the bird is the word
A-well-a bird, bird, bird, b-bird's the word
A-well-a bird, bird, bird, well the bird is the word
A-well-a bird, bird, b-bird's the word
A-well-a bird, bird, bird, b-bird's the word
A-well-a bird, bird, bird, well the bird is the word
A-well-a bird, bird, b-bird's the word
A-well-a don't you know about the bird?
Well, everybody knows that the bird is the word!
A-well-a bird, bird, b-bird's the word
A-well-a...
They continue to hold the top spot with over three times the points of the second ranked tribe and have twice the villages. Has this world already been won? Should we combine forces and take them out before they destroy us all? Or are they pointwhoring quitters? Will they disappear like a bad dream and restore hope for us all?
