LC or HC nukes?

[DeletedUser282]

LC are superior in nukes in my opinion.

The common argument about using HC in nukes is that if you attack someone and they attack back you can use the HC in your nukes to stack to defend, however in doing this you are losing the cavalry from your offence and you are unable to continue attacking effectively as you will have a load of villages with just around 7k axe and rams which is very wasteful and you can't really do anything with them.

So the whole usage of the HC in nukes isn't actually viable unless you send a small amount from each village which is quite time consuming and the majority of people doing the HC strat won't do that.

So, basically, depending on your different playing style it may or may not work, I would say that for the average player the HC strat is to complicated for them to make it work well.

 

[DeletedUser]

basically HC nukes, (in my opimion), weaken the position of a player all round.

You are effectively using mixed production, one of the ultimate sins.

 

[DeletedUser5582]

basically HC nukes, (in my opimion), weaken the position of a player all round.

You are effectively using mixed production, one of the ultimate sins.

? Mixed production?! Have you gone mad (apart from your choice of dog!)

HC strategy works if you are an active player. I won't try and convince folk of the benefits as well Openeye said it way better than I can.

In summary though I'll say this. IF you are active then it works well as not only does your defense become oh so much faster but you can also build way more offensive villages. Yes your offensive nukes are weaker than normal ax/lc/ram effort but as you have more offensive villages you just send more nukes! Happy days! Plus if you fit in cats into this build you get way better fan mail from your opponents!!!

The negatives are not so obvious though. I find my tribemates now noble in my clusters as they know I give great support which is sweet of them but really not needed!

For those of you who have knocked this then either you haven;t been attacked by a serious tribe yet or you really haven;t thought through the benefits or you're just not active enough as this wont work if you log on just once a day. For those who moan about rubbish saddlebags then just send more farming runs! For the comments re having a HC village or look at the sims as who does more damage then you just are missing the point entirely!

With HC strategy I can move more defense quicker not just to the first target but back again and out to the next! I can stack way so much quicker to the attacks where I've just logged on and have no idea whats coming.
I have more nukes plus I can support nobles from ALL my villages. I can snipe from ALL my villages and I can send defense from ALL my villages.

But the main key advantage for me (humble noob that I am) is that I can stack my threatened villa from all of mine so when I kill the enemy nuke I spread my losses over 5, 6 or more villages whereas the poor sap attacking me is rebuilding in one.

Offense builds faster than defense!! Evil laughter to fade....

 

[DeletedUser]

HC nukes are not better nukes, HC nukes as part of the HC strategy are better for this world for 2 reasons:

1. Techs
If you use LC nukes, you have to make compromises on your techs in some villages. If I remember correctly, your bare minimum techs for each village have to be:

Spear: 3
Sword or HC: 3
Axe: 3
Scout: 2
Ram: 1
Cat: 1

Thats 12 already. Now, if you use swords for defence, you may aswell use LC nukes. If however your gonna use the HC/Spear/Cat defence, you may as well choose the HC nukes too because you don't want to be sacrificing on scout tech levels - for farming reasons, or not having cats researched for three reasons; versatility for your defence (Swapping villages between off and def is easier), you want maybe 8 per nuke for rally or for Cat nukes.

I can't explain it very well, I'm pretty tired, but you should get the gist of what I mean by looking at the techs you have and need.



2. Quick support
Anyone not know the advantages of having HC available pretty much everywhere within your area, even when your supporting else where may as well leave the thread.


Of course, any negatives of having your nukes "weaker" than normal is negated by the fact you can have so many more offensive villages.

 

[DeletedUser5450]

Offense builds faster than defense!! Evil laughter to fade....

if you hit a village with enough troops in it to kill of your h.cav nuke, it would not be quicker to rebuild than them def troops lost. h.cav being one of the slowest units to build and all. assuming both stable and barracks are fully built, and you was hitting an active player who has at least slightly stacked, and moved troops around.
im not denying it certainly has its advantages, more nukes, and a far superior def capabilities. i must admit you have made it sound quite a desirable set up, and quite tempting to try out.

i personally have always used lc nukes.

my reasons, it simply costs less, builds quicker, farms quicker and brings back bigger hauls.

 

[DeletedUser5582]

if you hit a village with enough troops in it to kill of your h.cav nuke, it would not be quicker to rebuild than them def troops lost. h.cav being one of the slowest units to build and all. assuming both stable and barracks are fully built, and you was hitting an active player who has at least slightly stacked, and moved troops around.
im not denying it certainly has its advantages, more nukes, and a far superior def capabilities. i must admit you have made it sound quite a desirable set up, and quite tempting to try out.

i personally have always used lc nukes.

my reasons, it simply costs less, builds quicker, farms quicker and brings back bigger hauls.

am thinking you are seeing benefits but not really seeing points! Was little joke on offense builds faster than defense as this always quoted.

If you are one being attacked then because you are bringing in your sp/hc from several villages (note defense coming from both offensive AND defensive villages for HC) you are spreading your rebuild time over several villages thus saving time on age old offense is quicker to replace then defense argument. That is the main advantage. Spread the losses spread the rebuild time! Plus Sp/HC/cat defense rebuilds about 3x times faster than sp/sw defense.

Ok yes your offensive nuke gets wiped and will take a while to rebuild but as you have more of them you will get that village so the defender not skipping happily saying my oh my hello birds hello trees my defense will be built before your nuke comes back! No is very cross indeed! Plus if you have catted his other villages then chances are you are receiving mail comparing your mother to an outraged orangutan with a fruit allergy.

As I said main issue is your tibemates want to be close to you as you give great support so if you switch don't tell them!

 

[DeletedUser]

Attacker: Schonau
Origin: Grand Duchy of Rell (338|329) K33

Quantity: 0 0 7800 0 0 1500 295 0 1
Losses: 0 0 880 0 0 169 33 0 0


Defender: xxxx
Destination: xxxx

Quantity: 0 596 15 80 979 166 67 170 0
Losses: 0 596 15 80 979 166 67 170 0


Haul: 20.660 23.781 28.411 72852/135750
Damage by rams: The wall has been damaged and downgraded from level 20 to level 0
Loyalty: Dropped from 100 to 69

These type of nukes seem better, they offer better defence with slightly lower offence, would be a lot better vs back-timing. (btw this isn't my report, it was forwarded to me.)

A Pure HC nuke is silly, as the time it takes to build these villages to 24k/24k is extremely long.

Offence builds faster than defence for the reason that defence troops have an advantage over offence, even without a wall.

 

[DeletedUser]

Pure HC nukes are bad, but if you put 500-750 HC per nuke and have a few more spears in your D villages than normal, then it does work out better overall

 

[Nauzhror]

Offence builds faster than defence for the reason that defence troops have an advantage over offence, even without a wall.

Defense is not stronger than offense without a wall.

Simulation clearly shown below:

 

[DeletedUser]

Defense is not stronger than offense without a wall.

Simulation clearly shown below:

Actually it depends on the defence.

 

[DeletedUser]

Defense is not stronger than offense without a wall.

Simulation clearly shown below:

Lol

like blastor said, even amounts of defence vs offence and the defence will win

10000 axes and 2500 lc (20k) will lose vs 10k spears and 10 swords.(20k)

and your img is dead

 

[DeletedUser]

Lol

like blastor said, even amounts of defence vs offence and the defence will win

10000 axes and 2500 lc (20k) will lose vs 10k spears and 10 swords.(20k)

and your img is dead

Anyway it is really pointless. By changing the configuration, one can beat another person. :icon_rolleyes:

 

[DeletedUser]

Anyway it is really pointless. By changing the configuration, one can beat another person. :icon_rolleyes:

That wasn't the point

the point was defence has a advantage over offence[with no wall] (with equal amounts) your SS isn't equal.

 

[DeletedUser]

That wasn't the point

the point was defence has a advantage over offence[with no wall] (with equal amounts) your SS isn't equal.

Mine are the same farm space on each. Offense wins on that config.

 

[DeletedUser]

That wasn't the point

the point was defence has a advantage over offence[with no wall] (with equal amounts) your SS isn't equal.

How is it not equal? a normal nuke is around 6300 axe and 3300 lc? :icon_rolleyes:

 

[Nauzhror]

Lol

like blastor said, even amounts of defence vs offence and the defence will win

10000 axes and 2500 lc (20k) will lose vs 10k spears and 10 swords.(20k)

and your img is dead

Say what?

Non-archer world:

Attacker Units: 0 0 10000 0 2500 0 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 8932 0 2233 0 0 0 0

Defender Units: 10000 10000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 10000 10000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Archer World:

Attacker Units: 0 0 10000 0 0 2500 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 8490 0 0 1882 0 0 0 0 0 0

Defender Units: 10000 10000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 10000 10000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0


Know what you're talking about. Really, it makes you look smarter.

And yes, image is down, will be back up shortly, web server is offline at the moment.

Actually it depends on the defence.

Of course a sword heavy defense beats a non lc heavy offense, but with equal ratios and no wall, the offense wins, ie:

archer world:

Attacker Units: 0 0 40 0 0 40 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 40 0 0 21 0 0 0 0 0 0

Defender Units: 40 160 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 40 160 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

non-archer:

Attacker Units: 0 0 40 0 40 0 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 37 0 37 0 0 0 0

Defender Units: 40 160 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 40 160 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

 

[DeletedUser5450]

That wasn't the point

the point was defence has a advantage over offence[with no wall] (with equal amounts) your SS isn't equal.

as remote said, they take up the same farm space... :icon_rolleyes:

Anyway it is really pointless. By changing the configuration, one can beat another person.

this is why i have always used a mixed group of nukes, nukes for busting a wall on a stacked village, nukes for villages full of spears, and the same for every eventuality.

never used a h.cav nuke though.

 

[DeletedUser5283]

i use LC as its quicker to build but also throw 100 HC in the nuke

 

[DeletedUser]

Say what?

Non-archer world:

Attacker Units: 0 0 10000 0 2500 0 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 8932 0 2233 0 0 0 0

Defender Units: 10000 10000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 10000 10000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Archer World:

Attacker Units: 0 0 10000 0 0 2500 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 8490 0 0 1882 0 0 0 0 0 0

Defender Units: 10000 10000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 10000 10000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0


Know what you're talking about. Really, it makes you look smarter.

And yes, image is down, will be back up shortly, web server is offline at the moment.



Of course a sword heavy defense beats a non lc heavy offense, but with equal ratios and no wall, the offense wins, ie:

archer world:

Attacker Units: 0 0 40 0 0 40 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 40 0 0 21 0 0 0 0 0 0

Defender Units: 40 160 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 40 160 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

non-archer:

Attacker Units: 0 0 40 0 40 0 0 0 0
Losses: 0 0 37 0 37 0 0 0 0

Defender Units: 40 160 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Losses: 40 160 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Nauz i do know what im talking about, no idea how i messed that up though, must of not been paying attention to the simulator, or mistyped something.

You insulting people while your supposed to be a mod doesn't make you look smart at all.


Anyway, Pure villages are slow and usually no where near as efficient, pure lc/hc/axes take much longer to build than mixed villages, therefore in a war, you will lose, although if you have time to build them up intially, then after you lose troops within that nuke you turn it into a mixed village, i suppose you have the advantage, then inbetween wars you turn it back into a pure.

replacing lc with HC seems like a smart idea defence wise though, as backtiming becomes a lot less effective.

 

[DeletedUser]

whats the hell of pure lc/hc they can be killed with ease and are useless in many circumstances as the build time is far too long