~*MH*~Family (+K45 Jungle?) Vs SPQR

[DeletedUser]

just want to add a little variety in the people speaking here. Can some1 put the prior (GIGANTIC) arguments into a short post? Is it really all about whether this is a war, spat or skirmish? Does it matter, 2 of the top 10 tribes are involved, 1 of them with their family and jungle have a few players mixed in helping MH. (surely jungle should be put into the stats or have they not nobled anything?)

On the family tribe question they are not always bad. On the world I used to play *A* (aggression) managed to become the most respected family tribe on the world because we managed to get good players in all, we just didn't have enough room in 1. It is only when you get just the main tribe being any use and the others as graveyards for inactives that family tribes are useless. Eventually inactivity drives all family tribes to either be single tribes or just to die but in themselves they are just an excess of players. Personally from the very limited experience I have had from looking at the maps and the talking in here (and the fact that it is still near the beggining of this world) *MH* should really look at consolidating their tribes to atleast 2 if not 1. 3 tribes at this stage must have a multitude of inactive + people just going along for the ride.

I hope this sparks some more constructive argument .

 

[DeletedUser]

Oh and talking of alliances SPQR are now bricking themselves at the involvement of ELite on the side of MH! Desparation there guys seruiously lol

I missed the part where Mh begged them to help :icon_confused:

Ow.....sorry, they messaged Mh saying they wanted in.....They couldnt really leave them out could they... :icon_sad:

Any Evidence that Mh begged? :icon_rolleyes:

 

[DeletedUser5542]

just want to add a little variety in the people speaking here. Can some1 put the prior (GIGANTIC) arguments into a short post? Is it really all about whether this is a war, spat or skirmish? Does it matter, 2 of the top 10 tribes are involved, 1 of them with their family and jungle have a few players mixed in helping MH. (surely jungle should be put into the stats or have they not nobled anything?)

On the family tribe question they are not always bad...

To sumerise:
The overt point of this post was to document the conflict between MH and SPQR. Call it what you like but hopefully we all accept by now that MH had concret plans to go to war with SPQR.

Sub point 1: Is it a war, spat, skirmish or conflict? Again this has come down to arguing over semantics. Yes, it may seem a bit daft that a war post was made when only one villa was swapped but there is enough to suggest that it will carry on and maybe even escalate. People didn't start documenting World War II only after the American joined in. I know comparing TW to WWII is a stretch but I think it illistrates my point. I think this conflict/spat/bru-haa-haa will develop.

Sub point 2: Jungles involvment. Now I hopefully we can all agree that certain jungle members were hoping to take SPQR villas at the same time as MH. again we can (and have) argue over wether this constatutes an allience or nap or what. However as far as I'm aware Jungle have not attacked any SPQR members and so are no involved in this broo-haa-haa.

The second point wasn't really something I was pushing but it seems to have developed from the discussion so there you go.

On the point about familiy tribes, well we could fill a whole other post debating that point. Feel free to start one if you wish and I'd be more then happy to give my two centimos.

 

[DeletedUser]

This War may actually create an oportunity for other tribes (wake up Jack if you havent yet or even EGG)and bring some changes to the TOP tribes even with the possibility of 1 or even more completly dissapering from the TOP ranks.

I wouldnt be surprised to see SPQR actually intentions are to noble the "weaker" players and bring the strongests onboard, I doubt this will bother Jungle in any way unless they also have an eye on some players (I doubt it).

Now if the above happens and MH actually falls and with some of the players moving to other tribes we could see some interesting changes on the world core deppending on where and which players joins who!

I personally think that Jack and EOV could be in serious danger (or the tribes picking up the spoils?!)to be the next targets if they dont manage to get their Diplomacy working on the right place.

Of course this is just my opinion and not based on any facts

Saying that it dont really bother me as long as someone is nobling someone and aimeekitty .... just keep it coming,was an interesting reading

 

[DeletedUser4817]

Well, Jack has lost count of the number of times MH declared war on us and failed to follow up with any actual action.

MH have been a classic example of all the worst things about family tribes. Poor communications, lack of aggression, crippled by internal politics, and full of newbs who never got the opportunity to learn to play this game properly; the only game in town they saw was to get an invite, and then be left with nothing to do except occasional spider defense.

My guess is they won't exist within 2 weeks.

 

[DeletedUser5542]

Thank you for the love.

The following is just how things seem to me and I am more then happy to be put right.
-------------------------------------

MH has been near the top of the table for a while and given their family there were few people who were willing to have a pop. However several members were unhappy with either how the tribe was being run or with those running it and so began to leave. (Ka3oom and Ruvento to Jungle, Angry Chef and others to SPQR). MH had unfortunatly attracted a lot of people sheltering under its shadow.

In an attempt to galvanise the tribe they declaired war on WAR. However WAR was sadly far too weak a target and crumbled without performing it's desired purpose of getting the tribe more organised.

At this point MH should have tried to restructure and get the number of members down. However they unfortunatly didn't learn much for the WAR war to help them with this. They had also been having frequent border conflicts with Jack who are organised enough to swat these aside. Instead of cutting the number down MH then took FEAR in as M3H. I was previously in FEAR and while they are good people few of them would really have benifitted a top 10 tribe.

MH was suffering, they had too many members in too small a space. They had a strong jungle presense in their terratory and didn't want to aggravate this. The claims of 100+ players in a small space was causing more and more stress and more people were leaving to join SPQR which seemed a more organised and together tribe.

The MH council were then forced into a corner. If they didn't do anything they would continue to hemmorage good players. There were still many tallented players in MH but they had to stop the rot. The obvious choice then was to go for SPQR. Here was a good tribe who hopefully MHs numerical advantage would count against. If they could take out SPQR (with a little help from nearby Jungle players) then this would train the tribe, make MH stronger and bigger and stop people joining SPQR.

This unfortunatly didn't go to plan. Any tribe the size of MH and with so many players who never post on forums or talk to others is bound to have leaks and holes somewhere. The MH council tried to counter this by telling people to prepare for war whilst with holding the target. Some people, as evident from previous posts, hoped that the target would be Jungle. However several figured out it was SPQR and so word leaked long before i was involved.

When a more concrete leak came exposing the plans MH had no choice but to act. They had already postponed once and were committed to an assault. The resentment felt by some members would only grow if they backed out now. MH went ahead. They would either be victorious or...they would not be.
---------------------------------

Once again the above is mearly how i understand the story due to rumour, conjecture, guessing and of course, nosing around the MH forum. I am more then happy to be corrected and hope that people will see fit to add their comments.

 

[DeletedUser]

I know it is a bit off topic but it is atleast about the core. I could realistically see a gangbang on Kama, would like to see that world war, they are by far the biggest but also too spread out. Egg could hit from the east, seeing that happen could promt others to take advantage. TFF, EoV, -x- and the other major tribes in Kama's territory. Just an idea They clearly hold the top spot very convincingly but could see how it could be done.

 

[DeletedUser]

Sub point 2: Jungles involvment. Now I hopefully we can all agree that certain jungle members were hoping to take SPQR villas at the same time as MH. again we can (and have) argue over wether this constatutes an allience or nap or what. However as far as I'm aware Jungle have not attacked any SPQR members and so are no involved in this broo-haa-haa.

Right... Unless you've actually seen Jungle's forums (or skype channel for that matter) you can't possibly have any idea what our plans were or are. Especially since many Jungle members are still unaware of multiple aspects of our plans. We would never post any of our intentions or plans in such a public setting as a forum shared with 80-100 other players. In fact, most of our plans are carried out on an individual basis. If we had planned on taking SPQR villages at the same time as MH, it would have happened. Again, I've seen nothing to evidence any of your claims about Jungle... I wonder why? It's much harder to find someone who will feed you information in a tribe of 19 then it is to find someone who will feed you information in a family of 80+

Oh, and it would seem this thread needs it's title edited. It seems Egg has now dropped their nap with MH? (How is my hearsay Aimee? Trying real hard to learn from the best. :icon_wink

 

[DeletedUser5542]

Right... Unless you've actually seen Jungle's forums (or skype channel for that matter) you can't possibly have any idea what our plans were or are. Especially since many Jungle members are still unaware of multiple aspects of our plans.

I only mentioned the sub point as i was summerising what the thread was discussing. You've made speculation on Jungles plans a major theme of this thread and so I felt it should be included. I've had my say but I'm sure if anyone else would speculate over Jungles Master Plan they're more then welcome.

On your last point, is that true??? Why am I always the last one to know about these things? ^_^

 

[DeletedUser]

Sub point 2: Jungles involvment. Now I hopefully we can all agree that certain jungle members were hoping to take SPQR villas at the same time as MH. again we can (and have) argue over wether this constatutes an allience or nap or what. However as far as I'm aware Jungle have not attacked any SPQR members and so are no involved in this broo-haa-haa.

Oh dear, have you ever heard: "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" ? It fits the situation. Stop making assumptions based on huh(?) nothing ?

"We" can argue? You're the lonely poster showing off how well you know Jungle.

To summarize:

Fail number 1: Assumption of an alliance? What alliance?

Will Jugles K45 contingent live up to their alliance or now the cat is out of the bag (so to speak) will they stay out of it?

Fail number 2: Like I've said above "The enemy of my enemy is my friend", Jungle being involved is different of Jungle being allied with.

I know this next bit isn't conclusive but it shows that Jungle were also involved in the war effort which i think constatutes them being allies on some level

Fail number 3: Interpretation fail, so you're interpreting what Ruffus thoughts were? MH has more spies than KGB, you certainly can see their diplomacy list, however Jungle never stated or told Ruffus about any alliance and therefore he has no reason to think that there was one in the first place.

Still no allience between Jungle and MH? Ruffus certainly seemed to think there was.

Fail number 4: Just for the sake of it, flaming fail.

well at least some jungle members are putting in claims for SPQR at least. Although if they're waiting for MH to claim all SPQR villas its going to be a long wait.

Fail number 5: So first there was an alliance, now there's a NAP and MH are doing everything to avoid conflict with Jungle. Prolific and fertile imagination you have. No doubt on that.

maybe there is just a nap but MH certainly seem to be doing all the can to avoid conflict with jungle

Fail number 6: You start on this thread claiming there is an alliance and a possible war, then there's only a NAP and MH is doing everything possible in order not to war Jungle. Now there's no alliance and no war. My question is, if you are so contradictory why do you make such threads like this?

So ok, maybe not an allience, maybe not a war. We could sit here and argue over these definitions all day but I certainly find these developements interesting to watch.

Yes we could sit here and keep discussing this, oh wait we're actually sitting here and discussing your definitions, your assumptions, your thoughts, your opinions, do you see any common denominator? You.

Our forum readers deserve a little more respect, creating threads just for the sake of it or as you claimed "to liven up the forums" the way you did, I believe most of us would prefer no thread at all.

Also, this is not an attempt to "score personal points" as I don't need recognition or popularity, this is purely stating where you're failing and why too much assumptions and little facts don't work well.

Apart from that have a good day/night :icon_wink:

 

[DeletedUser5542]

Our forum readers deserve a little more respect, creating threads just for the sake of it or as you claimed "to liven up the forums" the way you did, I believe most of us would prefer no thread at all.

Thank you for taking time out of your busy day to comment on a thread that no body (including yourself presumably) cares about. Perhaps if you were more interested you would have done more then just collect a random bunch of quotes and repost them without any context. Some of them I'm sure could be argued over but when you just repost my comments without the actually thing they're commenting on you're just going to end up confusing everyone.

Have a good day/night =^_^=

 

[DeletedUser]

lol well it does seem like a lot of time spent to split hairs. If i'm honest you don't this much argument to establish some simple facts. She thought you had an alliance, you say you don't, sorted.

Back on topic is no1 gonna make that map? I have far too much time on my hands until I can grow into something large enough to have any effect so might as well root for random bigger tribes lol.

GO SPQR! *waves pompoms*

 

[DeletedUser]

Thank you for taking time out of your busy day to comment on a thread that no body (including yourself presumably) cares about.

Fail at assuming I'm having a busy day and therefore fail at a suppose attempt to flame me. Believe me that if I were having a busy day I wouldn't be logged in the internet in a web browser game. Where did I stated I didn't care about? Would you care to quote me? What I do care is what you're giving to our forum readers and what you're giving them including me is trash.

Perhaps if you were more interested you would have done more then just collect a random bunch of quotes and repost them without any context.

I'm interested in stopping people from posting the way you did in here, I didn't collect a random bunch of quotes, I collected your assumptions through the time as I've stated but you probably didn't care to read

Fail number 6: You start on this thread claiming there is an alliance and a possible war, then there's only a NAP and MH is doing everything possible in order not to war Jungle. Now there's no alliance and no war. My question is, if you are so contradictory why do you make such threads like this?

The question was actually rhetorical nonetheless you can't even try to argue the point I've made there. Because it is proven by what you've said. It started as an alliance then it passed to a NAP with MH trying not to war Jungle and it finally ended up with no alliance and no war. Makes sense? Nah it doesn't.

Some of them I'm sure could be argued over but when you just repost my comments without the actually thing they're commenting on you're just going to end up confusing everyone.

Have a good day/night =^_^=

It is hard to be serious around such a funny person as you kitty, they could be argued over?? :icon_eek::icon_eek: :icon_razz::icon_razz: How do you argue in favour of your assumptions? Because that's all they are. Thus there is no possible defence, unless of course you have some mighty facts that I or Jungle players don't know about. My advice bring them on, because if you want a sustainable defence it is better not to rely on your opinions, your definitions, your assumptions, because as you've stated and this is one of your definitions, two tribes fighting the same enemy are consequently allies, right?! :icon_wink:

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes we could sit here and keep discussing this, oh wait we're actually sitting here and discussing your definitions, your assumptions, your thoughts, your opinions, do you any common denominator? You.

Our forum readers deserve a little more respect, creating threads just for the sake of it or as you claimed "to liven up the forums" the way you did, I believe most of us would prefer no thread at all.

Also, this is not an attempt to "score personal points" as I don't need recognition or popularity, this is purely stating where you're failing and why too much assumptions and little facts don't work well.

Apart from that have a good day/night :icon_wink:

Oh lord! The problem here is Ms Kitty was highly entertaining and I for one thought her posts were informative. I don't know about you, but this is a discussion thread and people are allowed to have their opinions and they do not have to present facts. She did however. I am satisfied with what she had to say and her sources.

Please do not include me in your sweeping generalisations about forum readers. Since you like facts so much, start using them.

"...this is purely stating where you're failing and why too much assumptions and little facts don't work well."

 

[DeletedUser5542]

Fine, you want me to spell it out again i will.

1. MH was going to war with SPQR

~*MH*~ - Metallicus on 10.01. at 17:59

Due to a less than 50% response to my mail ref the war due to start tomorrow,the council have had no choice but to cancel until 1500 on saturday the 16th.

~*MH*~ - Ruffus today at 20:31 Quote
Ok guys and girls
We start attacking SPQR tomorrow at 8am.
Do not send until 8am
I'll be online all day so send attacks and then set me if you have to ok.

2. Whatever Jungles relationship with MH they were involved in planning a join campaign against SPQR and some of their members were making claims.

~*MH*~ - Ruffus on 10.01. at 22:39 Quote
Hi all, remember that you can only claims 2 villages at once ok.

I would like you all to help each other and work on one target in two's.
Help each other and we will win this war.

The Forum is shared with ~*MH*~, ~M2H~, ~M3H~ and Jungle

~M2H~ - Camsteroony today at 20:33 Quote
Are we placing our claims now?
~*MH*~ - Ruffus today at 20:36 Quote
Yes
~*MH*~ - laln today at 20:39 Quote
and who else is on our side?
~*MH*~ - Ruffus today at 20:40 Quote
Jungle

Jungle - Ruvento today at 20:48 Quote
Can I stake a claim to Eldritch (513|441) K45 and Dac (519|443) K45 plox?
Will be waiting until all are claimed so we can swipe him together sort of thing, don't really want to jump waist deep when I could only be getting my ankles wet.

Now frankly I don't care weather Jungle had a NAP, an Allience or if some of their members were just having a fling on the side but it seems people keep pulling this issue back up. I've tried to just let it go but i've decided to address it this time.

Hopefully this will be the last time I have to address this point as I'm really getting dizzy. Jungle have had their say and claim there was no hanky panky going on, they were just going to take out some mutual targets and thats fine with me. I think this point had been resolved.

 

[DeletedUser]

Fine, you want me to spell it out again i will.

1. MH was going to war with SPQR

Okay, nowhere does that say Aimeekitty was going to war with SPQR does it? Or that MH was going to war with Aimeekitty? You're completely uninvolved, and you saw fit to bore us with your conjecture and misinformation. That is what TBBT is talking about. The fact that you, who had and continues to have (unless my rumors are correct... :icon_wink nothing to do with this conflict, continues to spur an argument over "rhetoric" and "personal insults" and make a thread you claim is about this war into a panel discussion about you and how unfairly you are being treated for "only posting your opinions".

2. Whatever Jungles relationship with MH they were involved in planning a join campaign against SPQR and some of their members were making claims.

Are they? You yourself have admitted that Jungle has neither lost any villages, or taken any villages. All you know is that we've "claimed" villages in a shared forum in which we were well aware spies were present. You honestly think our plans haven't changed by now? Or that those were our plans in the first place? I'm not saying they are, or that we have no intention of involvement with SPQR, but as you said... We're the most "devious tribe in Tribal Wars" obviously you cannot take anything we say at face value... Right?

Now frankly I don't care weather Jungle had a NAP, an Allience or if some of their members were just having a fling on the side but it seems people keep pulling this issue back up. I've tried to just let it go but i've decided to address it this time.

False, this fact was brought up in one of your two "sub-points". It would seem as though you haven't let it go... :icon_neutral: Of course you're likely to say "I didn't mean it like that" or "it wasn't my main point" but it was your point all the same. (From the way you worded your post, it is your assumption)

Spoiler: Subpoint Two

Sub point 2: Jungles involvment. Now I hopefully we can all agree that certain jungle members were hoping to take SPQR villas at the same time as MH. again we can (and have) argue over wether this constatutes an allience or nap or what. However as far as I'm aware Jungle have not attacked any SPQR members and so are no involved in this broo-haa-haa.

Simple enough for you? I made sure to leave links to all of your posts so you can refind them in their context and all that rot... So that you don't complain about being misquoted and such. Still need help with the deciphering? I am sure you can find one of these:

Spoiler: Enigma Machine

As for Mister Fogg... You enjoy anything that isn't substantiated by proof.

I don't care to multi-quote you, so I'll just simple quote you.

"I don't know about you, but this is a discussion thread and people are allowed to have their opinions and they do not have to present facts. She did however." Please don't make such "sweeping generalizations"... She might have provided facts, but they don't support her opinions or assumptions. I can post that the sky is pink, and explain what determines the sky the color that it is, but that doesn't mean I am right.

Edit: And before I somehow get yelled at for somehow insulting someone with the Enigma Cipher reference:

Spoiler: Excerpt from Aimee's PM to me...

AimeeKitty on 12.01. at 22:41
i'm afraid you're going to have to do a better job of explaining yourself as your turning into an enigma to anyone who isn't you.

I aim to please miss Kitty of the Aimee variety.

 

[DeletedUser]

As for Mister Fogg... You enjoy anything that isn't substantiated by proof.

You cannot possibly substantiate the claim you have just made.

She might have provided facts, but they don't support her opinions or assumptions.

Everbody is entitled to draw their own conclusions from the evidence they see. That's why we have jury's of 12 people.


Btw, I shortend my response, based on the quality of factual information I have seen and the stregnth of arguments I have read, I think AimeeKitty presents a very convincing and entertaining interpretation of the facts. Are you going to disagree with me Discord?

 

[DeletedUser]

Oh lord! The problem here is Ms Kitty was highly entertaining and I for one thought her posts were informative. I don't know about you, but this is a discussion thread and people are allowed to have their opinions and they do not have to present facts. She did however. I am satisfied with what she had to say and her sources.

Please do not include me in your sweeping generalisations about forum readers. Since you like facts so much, start using them.

"...this is purely stating where you're failing and why too much assumptions and little facts don't work well."

Highly entertainment? Of course people are allowed to have their opinions, my opinion here is that you like trash as much as Mrs. Kitty. (This is an opinion) I advise you to read The Sun, they are as good as Mrs. Kitty.

People don't have to present facts? Worst thing I've heard in tribal wars forums. Let's just start a thread about each tribe where we all say what we want good or bad without having facts to prove it, or we could just do 1 thread for each possible war on this world. Lets just spam the forums because we don't have to present facts and so every forum user should start a thread with his/her opinion based on nothing. This just proves the point made above, you like trash as much as Mrs. Kitty.

Her posts were informative? She's basically assuming things she doesn't know, "what is the relationship between Jungle and MH?", it started as an alliance then it was already "only a NAP, with MH doing everything to avoid a war" and then there was no alliance and no war. Do you see anything wrong here? This is logic, probably you rate fallacies higher. I don't.

Oh yes I do like facts more than opinions and I did purely stated where Mrs. Kitty was failing it wasn't an opinion that was logic (heh you know what that is?) , I rebuked her arguments making the forum readers see how her opinion, based on her false assumptions and not facts (but we do not have to present facts right?), was always changing.

If her opinion in the same question is always changing how come you have any solid base to say this is a good thread?! Oh it's this way, no it's that way, no I'm wrong not this or that way, but that other way. I know you're able to understand logic or at least I hope so.

Fine, you want me to spell it out again i will.

1. MH was going to war with SPQR

2. Whatever Jungles relationship with MH they were involved in planning a join campaign against SPQR and some of their members were making claims.

Now frankly I don't care weather Jungle had a NAP, an Allience or if some of their members were just having a fling on the side but it seems people keep pulling this issue back up. I've tried to just let it go but i've decided to address it this time.

Hopefully this will be the last time I have to address this point as I'm really getting dizzy. Jungle have had their say and claim there was no hanky panky going on, they were just going to take out some mutual targets and thats fine with me. I think this point had been resolved.

So if you don't care, nor you were sure if there was a real war going on why start a thread about something you're not sure?!

Hopefully this will be the last time you address that point? It is up to you if you keep addressing this or not, by repeating the same thing over and over again, that doesn't make your "arguments" better or more reasonable at all.

I heard false assumption caused dizziness :icon_razz:

I already addressed my point here.

Have a bright day since mine has just started, :icon_wink:
TBBT

 

[DeletedUser]

Highly entertainment? Of course people are allowed to have their opinions, my opinion here is that you like trash as much as Mrs. Kitty. (This is an opinion) I advise you to read The Sun, they are as good as Mrs. Kitty.

People don't have to present facts? Worst thing I've heard in tribal wars forums. Let's just start a thread about each tribe where we all say what we want good or bad without having facts to prove it, or we could just do 1 thread for each possible war on this world. Lets just spam the forums because we don't have to present facts and so every forum user should start a thread with his/her opinion based on nothing. This just proves the point made above, you like trash as much as Mrs. Kitty.

Supposition! No factual basis, just a rant.


Her posts were informative? She's basically assuming things she doesn't know, "what is the relationship between Jungle and MH?", it started as an alliance then it was already "only a NAP, with MH doing everything to avoid a war" and then there was no alliance and no war. Do you see anything wrong here? This is logic, probably you rate fallacies higher. I don't.

Entitled to your opinion. She is entitled to hers unfortunately for you.

Oh yes I do like facts more than opinions and I did purely stated where Mrs. Kitty was failing it wasn't an opinion that was logic (heh you know what that is?) , I rebuked her arguments making the forum readers see how her opinion, based on her false assumptions and not facts (but we do not have to present facts right?), was always changing.

You have absolutely no right whatsoever to speak for the rest of the forum readers. Merely attempting to silence and censure somebody who's opinions conflict with yours.


So if you don't care, nor you were sure if there was a real war going on why start a thread about something you're not sure?!

I think probably this has something to do with the thread becoming petty, arguing over silly split hairs about war. In fact anything you guys can think of to try and discredit her and anyone else who agrees with her. However, before you wade in demanding I produce facts, remember it's my opinion.

I hope you like the strikethrough, you talk about trash in the same paragraphs you write it. I thought that was hilarious.

 

[DeletedUser]

Thank you for taking time out of your busy day to comment on a thread that no body (including yourself presumably) cares about. Perhaps if you were more interested you would have done more then just collect a random bunch of quotes and repost them without any context. Some of them I'm sure could be argued over but when you just repost my comments without the actually thing they're commenting on you're just going to end up confusing everyone.

Have a good day/night =^_^=

I found his post entertaining to read, much more entertaining than this thread, and most posts (the majority yours) in this thread also.
Regarding how he ended his post also, the way in which you replied was incredibly rude Aimee. :|

On to the thread on topic stuffies.
I can't see how SPQR taking out MH's weaker players has any affect on the 'war' (if that's what it's to be named), while the 'better' lot of MH's players are picking up a few villages of SPQR's good members (granted, they have very little terrible players).
Then again, maybe it will work, but I believe if MH's council can pick up and co-ordinate thi war properly, they will do fine. >.<
It's still a two horse rate, don't rule out either side yet.

As for Mister Fogg... You enjoy anything that isn't substantiated by proof.

You cannot possibly substantiate the claim you have just made.

She might have provided facts, but they don't support her opinions or assumptions.

Everbody is entitled to draw their own conclusions from the evidence they see. That's why we have jury's of 12 people.


Btw, I shortend my response, based on the quality of factual information I have seen and the stregnth of arguments I have read, I think AimeeKitty presents a very convincing and entertaining interpretation of the facts. Are you going to disagree with me Discord?

You would obviously debate, anything Discord has to say.
You have a personal vendetta against the guy, I'm not say he has not one against you (I'm also not saying he has one, he's a lot harder to read than you may think. :|), but any 'point' you make debates what he states.
Aimee doesn't use evidence for the half of her claims, where's the proof of our involvement with MH diplomatically? Oh yes, there is none. :^)
Quality and factual information? Wow. Pot calling kettle Phileas?
>.<