Right to reply

[DeletedUser]

I fail to see where you are getting that from Patsy - we are expressing our views as is our right to - was that not also another reason this thread was created?

As it is moderation and script rules does not solely concern w1 but all .uk worlds

stop being pedantic thunder - we have just had this convo on skype

 

[DeletedUser]

There are ways of making it impossible, rather than illegal, to own and operate an unapproved script. It is Innogames' responsibility to get that done, not the responsibility of players to learn javascript.

You raise valid points but an effort has already been made to introduce some sort of 'failsafe' e.g. the scripts hosted by tracey, if it could be made that only these scripts work then by all means that would be a step forward. While agree it is not for a player to learn javascript (I havn't), any player can mail to ask about specific scripts, as you yourself have said player 'lazyness' does come into it in some aspects. I'd rather made the effort and play it safe than risk a punishment somewhere along the line.

As for scripts that do not function resulting in punishment, I can not comment but it does seem unfair if that is true.

@ Patsy - our conversation on skype is an entirely separate issue.

 

[DeletedUser]

wow 1 whole day has passed since i posted this thread...AND ITS STILL OPEN

Stands back in shock,,maybe we are getting a right to reply after all.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well, as the 'thread that won't be closed' has been closed, I thought I would post my thoughts here. They have been posted in another forum, but judging by the replies to the original post in that thread, no one reads it.

You have miss quoted me. Read my post again.

The thread will not be locked, until its purpose has been served. This was stated near the start of the thread in case you missed it.

Needless to say please keep your posts within forum rules and as close to the items being discussed as possible.

Thank-you.

That thread has served it purpose, it was very circular and no new issues were being raised, much the same way as this thread is heading.

If there are issues with which scripts are legal and which aren't, why aren't the most common and useful scripts - mass recruit, resource balancer, attack renamer, coin minter etc - all automatically placed in the tool bar for everyone, and all players have is the opportunity to edit the numbers. No other scripts are acceptable. No others can be added. All players have the same advantage of scripts. This would take away any problems with illegal scripts and allow the mods to have full control over what is in use?

Take your time to look at and re read what all the mods who have replied have said regarding this.

Some scripts have already been incorporated into the game over the last few updates. These however have not changed the principle on which the server is fundamentally based.

Give the people involved a little time to react to all that has gone on.

Although, this might be seen as sensible, so will be instantly dismissed.

?? We have not deleted anything from this thread. So please think before making claims that your opinions(posts) will be ignored.

you guys just here for mischief

Do not forget you have had your questions answered already, others have questions so please let them have their opportunity.

 

[DeletedUser]

Numerous points and attempts from various directions have been made to voice complaint and the reasons behind the complaints. Constraints on what can be said and what can be shown, indeed on what can be replied to are a frustration but also part of life in RL too, whoever it benefits.

Hopefully some of it has been heard (I believe that is the case reading between the lines of DA Oscars post)


"Give the people involved a little time to react to all that has gone on"


and will be acted upon when it can be and with good intention to make this a better game to played.

 

[DeletedUser]

On the forums you are given a warning before the ban in given. Why not do that in game as well? Offer a warning now, but take note of where the scripts were seen and double check at random times to see if illegal scripts show up after said warning - it both means that people will think to double check what they've got and will be less likely to put the scripts back on, which has been shown to be possible, as this whole situation appears to have proven that unless actively checking the mods have no way of knowing who has what.

If they've been told - if they've been given fair warning that they have an illegal script - they can't plead ignorance. Ignorance that I know in at least two cases has been completely legit.

 

[DeletedUser]

When you have to get three threads to get the very little distance we have and several other attempts on the scripts forum as well, following on also from the "Enough!!" thread less that a month ago it must be dawning that there is something wrong. If not then clearly there is no hope and you decide if you will play under those conditions or not.


Lets move on.

 

[DeletedUser]

I dare say that it can be fairly obvious if you are under attack by someone using an illegal script as .net allows various fake attack scripts, anyone versed in playing there can see them, therefore when they are used here it isn't hard to spot it.

Regardless this is just a continuation of a previously closed thread, the same mute points, the same countered arguments, the same moaning from the usual suspects, does anyone actually believe that public bemoaning of the moderation system will change anything? If so then you are somewhat deluded.

I stand by my original opinion, anyone who uses scripts outside of the 'approved script list' deserves what they get. Ignorance is no excuse, especially considering some of the people claiming ignorance are not in the least bit ignorant with regard to the rules but plead so in order to gain favour in some way.

Dare you say ! its fairly Ovious NOT !
these weren`t even working scripts !
so how could they be so fairly obviously seen ? they couldn`t be.
it is not a continuation of a previous post as I`m questioning the person who put in the ticket.
we need to know where it came from and how they knew. as I`ve stated its impossible for anyone to know what is on your quickbar unless they see it.(which would be cheating, maybe hacking )
I bet when this happened most people didn`t know if they had illegal or legal scripts on their quickbar.

 

[DeletedUser]

also loved this line from the other shut topic.

As for regular checks it is As for regular checks it is not physically possible to check every player and would be a breach of trust to just go into players accounts without a reason or just cause. to check every player and would be a breach of trust to just go into players accounts without a reason or just cause.

so I take it from that only a section of players were checked as you said it wouldn`t be physically possible to do them all.
you targeted people who had unusable scripts and hammered them !
how you knew they had them is also

not physically possible

 

[DeletedUser]

Dare you say ! its fairly Ovious NOT !
these weren`t even working scripts !
so how could they be so fairly obviously seen ? they couldn`t be.
it is not a continuation of a previous post as I`m questioning the person who put in the ticket.
we need to know where it came from and how they knew. as I`ve stated its impossible for anyone to know what is on your quickbar unless they see it.(which would be cheating, maybe hacking )
I bet when this happened most people didn`t know if they had illegal or legal scripts on their quickbar.

If they where not working, why did they have them? Is laziness now an excuse.

I totally agree with the mods, its the players quickbar, the player is responsible for the scripts contained in it, I struggle to believe anyone who says they dont know scripts that interact with the rally point are illegal, and I dont understand why anyone would have scripts in their quickbar that they either dont use, or cant use due to them not working. You guys seem to want to blame the mods, for the players errors? Thats a bit backward tbh.

If the mods where to apply a warning system or where to give advance notice, or where to let people of for excuses such as I didnt know what the script did, then quite frankly there would be a huge amount of abuse by players, who would knowingly use illegal scripts and the lie about it.

I pay premium too, I am a paying customer, and I am glad the mods take action when they find illegal scripts.

 

[DeletedUser]

Nobody has ever said that they don't know that scripts interacting with the rally point are illegal, to my knowledge. I would be interested to see you produce such a quote.

What I and several others have said is that people have been penalised for having scripts that do not work, and when a script does not work then it requires a working knowledge of Javascript to work it out. Also several players have been penalised for having scripts not on the approved list, even though they make no reference to that rally point. Again, it takes a certain amount of technical knowledge to establish whether your script is substantially the same as one on the approved list, and not everybody has - or should need to have - this knowledge.


Blame the mods for players' errors? There is rage in the community that anybody should imagine that possession of script that does nothing should be a penalisable offence. Why should it be? Rules must serve a purpose. If they have none they are not only pointless, but absurd. What is the purpose of banning a script that does nothing? Who benefits from the punishment of someone who possesses one? If nobody, then what the blazes are people doing enforcing these punishments?

 

[DeletedUser]

I shall repeat myself again for you taff

Why do players have scripts, that a. dont work and b. they dont use.

Who's fault is it that they are in their quickbar? Where planted by the mods.

 

[DeletedUser]

No idea and I don't really care. My point is - who is harmed by their possession of such a script? If nobody, then how can anyone justify its being penalisable? Rules are not holy, they must have a purpose or be removed, and that purpose must show a direct benefit to players.

 

[DeletedUser]

Nobody has ever said that they don't know that scripts interacting with the rally point are illegal, to my knowledge. I would be interested to see you produce such a quote.

I cannot quote from a closed thread but:


The one in question is apparently called a K Generator. This I am told takes a player overview and generates a list you can paste of village addresses in total or by the K that they are in, funnily enough exactly as you can with the tools that are part of the game. However that list can then be inserted into a script button. From a rally point page when pressed it fills in the coordinates of the next village on the list. You still have to fill in the troops, hit attack and on the next screen hit OK and then move on to repeat for the next attack. What it saves is typing in the village coordinates from a list or selecting them from history, notebook, attack planner etc.

Maybe I have misread.

 

[DeletedUser]

No idea and I don't really care. My point is - who is harmed by their possession of such a script? If nobody, then how can anyone justify its being penalisable? Rules are not holy, they must have a purpose or be removed, and that purpose must show a direct benefit to players.

I know nothing about writing scripts, but I am pretty sure if I went into a script remove the first character it would stop working, I could then re-enter the first character when i want to use the script. Thus having a non working script in my quickbar for it my account was checked.

Now, I am not saying this does happen or has happened, but, could it not happen?

We must all be treated the same, which means the rules should be applied to us equally whether we have knowledge of scripting or do not have knowledge of scripting.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yeah, I think a mod would likely be able to detect that kind of stratagem. Also I can see no reason why a non-functional script should not be deleted by the mod... why would the player care? If it reappeared on that quickbar, everybody would know what was happening.

Yes we should all be treated the same. But that does not mean that rules that achieve nothing should be used to justify swingeing penalties. Also a rule that requires technical knowledge on the part of players - or even makes it desirable - is obviously one that should apply to nobody. Innogames should find another way.

As I have said several times elsewhere, if Innogames wish to prevent the use of unapproved scripts (an they should, nobody disputes that) then they have had years in which to adjust the game engine to ensure that unapproved scripts do not function. I can think of at least three potential approaches to that - if I can do that, without sight of the code, I am sure Innogames can do better. They should, and that would protect the technically untutored from finding themselves in infraction of rules without their knowledge.

 

[DeletedUser]

Battle axe - no you did not misread, but you have misquoted.

The post you quote from states at the top that there was research conducted into the matter before the post was made so please at least read all of it before you quote from it and attempt to imply the c word. Second there is a distinction made about use of and possession of that I thought important enough to highlight as clearly as I could.

Feel free to disagree but at least know and show what you are disagreeing with please.

 

[DeletedUser]

also loved this line from the other shut topic.

so I take it from that only a section of players were checked as you said it wouldn`t be physically possible to do them all.
you targeted people who had unusable scripts and hammered them !
how you knew they had them is also

As far as I know most of the top accounts are checked fairly regularly on all worlds for illegal scripts etc. Pretty standard TW protocol, if they weren't you'd get people making false claims against superior players who "must be cheating cuz they're higher ranked than me".
But to be honest it's pretty logical if several top players have the same script that you'd check other players for it too.

[Disclaimer] I'm just assuming that it's to do with scripts as that's what I read in other topics. Also people will still complain about higher ranked players being cheats, but a fairly regular check flaws that argument completely. On another note I fully support the "ignorance/lazyness is not an excuse" argument. There is quite clearly a rule about scripts and botting in the rule section which players of this world should really know by now.

Also, @OP;

These are our forums too and we pay(by prem points) to have our say..

Unfortunately from a legal aspect that's simply not how it works.

You agreed to both of the following clauses when signing up, nearly all online games have similar clauses:

The user does not have a right to membership.

InnoGames hereby reserves the right to cease operating the games without justification.

Both point to the statement that playing is solely a privilege and not a right.

 

[DeletedUser]

Hannibal are you saying that the quote I made is not you describing the script that has caused some bans? If its not then I have indeed misread, If it is then I haven't.

For clarification I am disagreeing with the players who are saying its not their responsibility to ensure when they are using an Optional Advanced feature of the game that they are doing so without breaching the game rules. It is their responsibility.

 

[DeletedUser6944]

cheaters geting banned, whats the problem?