That's rubbish. They collapsed me and chris miles.
Let's see: terminator1203: still here. Decursus: still here. mark4744: still here. Reef: still here. ballo: still here. andyh370: internalled. SENOJ75: internalled. Fredders: internalled. omegawebby: internalled. gypsyvincent: went inactive. Kenza: went inactive. codywasnevergood: went inactive. Vikki Venom: went inactive. I'll give you BruceWayne and Luke Bishop out of generosity.
Many of the W1Nners of UK1 are still very much in force here - those that have left have mostly just lost interest in the game again, though in some cases sped along by CATS attacks.
in all honesty rotn/tc was always a alright tribe from day dot we had trouble despite runnin sum good opps ourselves.
i dont look as much into the leadership change as much as most, nothin rly changed just spammy fakes here n thier.
in all honesty rotn/tc was always a alright tribe from day dot we had trouble despite runnin sum good opps ourselves.
i dont look as much into the leadership change as much as most, nothin rly changed just spammy fakes here n thier.
um so all that complete rubbish you spouted re KnK coming back to bite you a bit?
D1 you would do better to just hold your hands up here and say I was wrong. Seriously you always come across as clueless but UK16 will be the point where your legacy of a TW Cassandra came good.
And to think this was just 2 of Knk that showed you up! God think what a whole tribe of them would have done to you!
Do you always blurt out things before even thinking about what you're saying?
Of course you wouldn't notice the change as you were never in ROTN/TC and just don't know what it's like except for what some say to you which you always should take with some salt...
The change is literally as day and night. Take it from me or anyone else who has been in this tribe a long time and actually know what they're talking about.
tbh all you guys can shove it, i dont know what the hell is wrong with you
i have a opinion about my interactions with rotn/tc, why you sad lil creatures wanna try berate me for having a opinion is beyond me
jo, your trollish views add nothing to no discussion, can see why u n rob get along
dal, self addmitedly ur a new player to tw but i didnt realise that means you just speel out crap, the fact you think you know what your talking about when self admiteddly you did naff all in regards to cats is shockin
astro/relskunk, am confused who is who on forums, but you do seem to for the most part have a respectable view, and whilst you proly disagree with me, least your not as petty as sum of the parasite forum users above.
i answered a omr question with my honest opinion, but seen as w16 has become a places to promote trolls and idiots am happy to let it rot as a bad memory, have fun.
dal, self addmitedly ur a new player to tw but i didnt realise that means you just speel out crap, the fact you think you know what your talking about when self admiteddly you did naff all in regards to cats is shockin
Do you always go on the offense and personal when you realize you were just wrong but can't admit it?
I know what I'm talking about not because I'm a "experienced or old" player. As I said before I haven' been here a long while. But I do know what I'm talking about that there is a lot of difference since Relskunk and Astro took over because I am a member of ROTN/TC so I can see the changes with my own eyes on the front row. Is that so hard to understand? It's just logical.
And yea my war stats against cats aren't much as I also admitted that without any problem. I also explained why that is for a large part. Trust me I'd have a lot more fun if the noble distance wasn't 29h10. If that's shocking news to you, well I'm not surprised as most arguments you make here are shocking on their own.
I always have done what my dukes asked me to do; without question. So I doubt that my dukes think I didn't do enough. Feel free to ask them yourself if you're so shocked.
Stats: 1st July - 15th August - (Previous 6 weeks)
At this time, the results against CATS were poor - showing under performance of the larger tribe against what appeared to be a ferocious feline enemy
Side 1:
Tribes: ROTN Side 2:
Tribes: CATS
Timeframe: 01/07/2013 00:00:00 to 15/08/2013 23:59:59
Total conquers against opposite side:
Side 1: 12 Side 2: 13 Difference: 1
Points value of total conquers against opposite side:
Side 1: 40,581 Side 2: 45,305 Difference: 4,724
15th August - New council established, the restructuring begins. The next week is about consolidation, changes, and putting right the things that were wrong. Ops are not yet in full swing, but we start to warm up.
Stats: 16th August - 22nd August
Side 1:
Tribes: ROTN Side 2:
Tribes: CATS
Timeframe: 16/08/2013 00:00:00 to 22/08/2013 23:59:59
Total conquers against opposite side:
Side 1: 12 Side 2: 12 Difference: 0
Points value of total conquers against opposite side:
So if you really think that over this 8 week period, a gain of 1 village by CATS over ROTN equates to them winning the war... then I think you're possibly clutching at straws
At best - it demonstrates that the tribes were at stalemate, and on a daily basis the stats would swing one way or the other, but making no decisive swing in favour of anyone.
When Pablo and I came into ROTN, it was unexpected and took us both out of semi-retirement. We put a lot into the worlds we play as I'm sure any of our previous and current tribe mates would testify to.
As much as I'd like to take credit for the turn in the tribes fortunes, from stalemate to:
Side 1:
Tribes: TC Side 2:
Tribes: CATS
Timeframe: 24/08/2013 00:00:00 to 28/09/2013 21:27:26
Total conquers against opposite side:
Side 1: 81 Side 2: 19 Difference: 62
Points value of total conquers against opposite side:
Side 1: 440,875 Side 2: 121,144 Difference: 319,731
I believe the tribe always had the potential, but it was being held back by a number of things:
1. Poor map coverage, putting too much strain on the central tribe to support these satalite clusters at the far reaches of the map.
2. Poor work ethic amongst certain members, largely caused by a few individuals rubbing people up the wrong way
3. Lack of a clear direction
Once we sorted those things out, the tribes potential has been released!..
Admittedly, the ops are down to Pablo and Myself - but I can't take away from the small groups of players that play particularly well as a single unit.
A combination of strengths being fanned along with the commitment from the entire tribe contributing in the ways that we ask and often going above and beyond, have made TC what it is today. Hence, the name The Commitments.
Are we now a winning tribe?.. well thats too early to say, but from my past experience, can quite confidently say that I am pleased with the tribes performance and am a proud member of the tribe. They have the attitude and the strengths that I would expect a winning tribe to have. What cannot be predicted however, are the other tribes who also show these attributes.... time will tell...
Did we beat CATS?.. yes - and I would quote Cat Norrris, however I respect him enough not to quote him word for word. All I need say though, is that our win over them was acknowledged by their Duke.
I find that statement totally dis-respectful of me and my intelligence.
I have on many occasions admitted I am a noob. But the relationship with under over-time was built on total trust. Discussions took place that were unprecedented. To utilise the word 'USE' is an insult to that relationship. Are you 'using' ER and A.F.A? There is no real geographical difference between the diplomacies. TC didn't have a big border with under whilst ER / A.F.A did. The big difference is that the end-game was discussed between myself and the dukes of under in a very open and honest way and we both assisted each other in the short term and 'had the same vision for the long term'.
To quote DAL's most intelligent comment in this thread as an example:-
Pablo, you were not party to the conversations with the under dukes when you were in CATS nor obviously at the later stages, so don't assume you know it all.
At best - it demonstrates that the tribes were at stalemate, and on a daily basis the stats would swing one way or the other, but making no decisive swing in favour of anyone.
There was plenty of posts at the time that stated it was too early to read anything into the stats.
Even if we take your assessment as the truth, the fact remains that a tribe that mainly consisted of Noobs and run by a noob was giving at least as good as it got from a tribe of W1 vets. In this thread, it's ROTN members that have declared that CATS were winning and I certainly consider it a victory that we created that impression in people's minds and reckon we deserve that credit, because initially we were under-rated nobodies.
Why were we winning? Mainly because the ROTN leadership was uselsee
As much as I respect you D1, and recognize your strategical knowledge of the game is up there amongst the best and think all the D1 haters/baiters are fools to under-rate you (as they did CATS) just because of your W16 experience, I'm sorry to say that statement is total rubbish... The TC leadership did TWO major things.... They managed to get the TC tribe members to start working as a team and they used some clever fakes in Ops.
Where I do agree with you D1 is that knk are over-rated. Sure Mike (astro/nitrogen) is very knowledgeable and strategically clever, but TC are easily beatable assuming they are not allowed to diplo their way to winning as appears to be their reputation.
Poor Mr Norris your under fire even now with guys re writing history eh
CATS were a equal with UNDER and a full allie
I myself was shocked at the way the noobs worked in early days, there certainly was no shortage of direction or leadership there
Everyone quote stats go on but your all missing one stat the one thats important
ROTN collapsed way before CATS did
Who killed who / whos the best PnP who the most experiance who nuked who all sidelines but hstory cant alter that ROTN a pro group fell way before CATS did
You can argue TC is ROTN (argue what you want as it goes) but the noobs upset this world.
I dont remember mass aid given by UNDER i only remember a clear and passionate CATS council teaching helping and winning that fight
All tribes have suffered from people leaving, and in atiny team of pros one leaving can finish a tribe but lets not talk rubbish about what the CATS guys did achieve before you old worlder loose all respect
WHy cant you accept CATS beat ROTN? you spout stat after stat but overlook who collapsed first
Nobody collapsed. Keep living in your dream world.
*edit* A bit more constructive: Far as I see it, ROTN was Luke's Idea of a W1N revival. It would last for as long as everyone had fun. Now certainly CATS managed to ruin the fun for a few of us. Maybe even for Luke, though I maintain that his leadership in ROTN was never as strong as in UK1 and he was going to leave eventually anyway. The move from ROTN to TC is really this: Luke losing interest and finding a worthy replacement. It's not ROTN having been beaten in war.
Cat, im not going to get into a debate with you. I already said, ask demit.
EDIT - Just wanted to say something again that I've said elsewhere. The diplomacy we have is the diplomacy we inherited. We've worked with what we had, and thats all there is to it.
Also - I do find the comparisons between TC and KnK amusing. The only thing KnK about TC is Mike and I, plus one or two others. Completely different situation, and a completely different set of players. I do echo what Mike says about TC though - very pleased with them. I am also relatively certain that had the KnK core of players rolled up and started in K54 on W16 from day one, things would have been very different. We never much liked sharing our home K with anyone! Used to get slated for starting wars too early, but it always worked. Call that statement egotistical if you like, but on both W7 and W12 we were at war with our K rivals probably before nobles came out!
Where I do agree with you D1 is that knk are over-rated. Sure Mike (astro/nitrogen) is very knowledgeable and strategically clever, but TC are easily beatable assuming they are not allowed to diplo their way to winning as appears to be their reputation.
As Pablo said - TC is not KnK. The only thing KnK about TC - is Pablo and I taking over.
The key hater of KnK historically and rumour monger of over use of diplo has been Mancunia, and he and I had various debates on the externals in the past.... but he and I see eye to eye now that he's seen us first hand, and although I won't ruin his reputation on the externals for being the horrible person he clearly is :icon_wink: , I'm sure he'd also agree that perhaps his original assessment of KnK's successes was not what is should have been.
I find your statement both insulting and complimentary. You credit Pablo and I with turning TC around, yet accuse us of over use of Diplo to gain our wins.
Cat Norris said:
[22/09/2013 20:49:22] Lawrence Hill: i'll give you (and pablo if i must ) credit for the ops recently .....but...
[22/09/2013 20:51:28] Lawrence Hill: the diplo credit has to go your predecessors...er , afa, rotn (aka tc) and even rif .... against cats / under.... and b4 there was tribes like nuke etc that your predecessors managed to manipulate.....OR under managed to pee off
We dislike diplomacy, but it has its uses. If you are seriously going down the route after experiencing only 2-3 weeks of our ops, and not even a full scale op, of saying we must have won previous worlds by diplomacy - whilst saying to me that you couldn't be duke at the same time as dealing with all this action - then you will be seriously dropping in my estimations, which is rather a shame as I credited you with holding CATs for as long as you did.
Is a ship sunk whilst its still floating? Is a tribe beaten whilst it sorts out a leadership crisis?
A potential winning scenario is not the same as winning. If ROTN hadn't changed, then they would have lost - I will grant you that. Had they lost at the point Pablo and I took over? - No. They were close to the point of no return, but hadn't reached it.
This was largely caused by a power vaccuum at the top, where the Leadership did not have the time to commit to the game that they had on W1. In this period of time, dramas and chaos began to take over from the orderly routine of a well run tribe.
Whether or not TC members said the CATS beat ROTN or not - I don't really mind. Their opinion is their own, and mine is my own. I'm simply stating an opinion.
I hate to say it and just want to point out that I'm severely hungover so probably not thinking straight...
but Mike/Pablo organisation, drive and ability as dukes was very enjoyable to be a very small part off... Was very impressive to watch as they took over ROTN and turned the tribe around to a tribe that will at least be very difficult to beat, if they don't win the world...
Though if anyone asks... KnK were clearly a hug first, recruit 2nd, war as a last resort tribe that fluked a couple of wins on dead words...
