Bot protection

DeletedUser

Guest
i dont have a problem with the protection ive only had to type it in 4 times sice it started

probably cause you dont run a large account with 100's of browser pases opening and shutting.

I think the fact Tracey has commented and said she has changed to try and improve says she is listening.

So lets see how next few days go and whether there is a marked improvement
 

DeletedUser4

Guest
I think the fact Tracey has commented and said she has changed to try and improve says she is listening.

So lets see how next few days go and whether there is a marked improvement

[tt]I am listening just very slow a reacting at this point I had surgery yesterday and suffering somewhat I have changed the setting so it should trigger alot less than It was and can only hope that it improves things its something that I cant get rid of but with a bit of time we should be able to get to a point where it not only works for us but is not intrusive on non cheating players just please bear with me on this one Im doing my best [/tt]
 

DeletedUser5175

Guest
A simple compromise would be that all your attacks / supports are actually sent out, they're tagged with BOT or something so the server knows these are currently being looked at. The player then has a few minutes to actually type the numbers / letters in and this then cancels the BOT tag. If the player doesn't type fullfill the bot request, well after a specific time limit then all tags with bot become cancelled.

So far I've been hit with this bot request somewhere in the region of about 6-7 times in one full 24 hr period on the one account. Every single one was when I was running bookmarks, it is rather annoying but I've been lucky so far. There's those that haven't been so lucky.

This IN MY OPINION needs to be looked into as a matter of urgency.


^^ this, i'd rep if i could rev, would also like to emphasize that discussion with your customers is not something to fear inno! :icon_idea:
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I normally open over 1200 TW pages a day, either farming or reloading/whatever.
The most times I get bot protection is 2x a day :S
 

DeletedUser4389

Guest
[tt]I am listening just very slow a reacting at this point I had surgery yesterday and suffering somewhat I have changed the setting so it should trigger alot less than It was and can only hope that it improves things its something that I cant get rid of but with a bit of time we should be able to get to a point where it not only works for us but is not intrusive on non cheating players just please bear with me on this one Im doing my best [/tt]


Tracey we the players appreciate what you are doing (have done) just it sucks that this change was made without telling us the whos/whys/whens so we could at least be aware of the implications, yes it kinda ruins the game for me as I want to snipe trains (I have plenty incoming) and I want to create very close trains of my own to land when I hit my enemies, this bot protection breaks this for us all.
I had a chat with one of the support guys (who was very nice and posted a reply here) and I understand why you are doing this, I just dont agree how it has been implemented.

Yes I am a moaning git and I should really grow up and actually install the new exchange servers into my vSphere but I love just popping onto TW to while away my days instead of watching blue bars scroll across screens. :D

In reality it is the fault of the devs to make such and addictive game and make us all play it with a little bit of heart and soul instead of it being another throwaway web game.

I do hope you come up with a better solution (it has improved some for me already) for us all and if there is a big problem with bot'ters then lets work as a community to rid ourselves of them.

PS : Guys I have found a way which seems to work somewhat but I dont know 100% if its a surefire way of not loosing trains or snipes due to the timing. Before you snipe/run a train logout and then back in, it doesnt help with farming (I haven't tried) but it seems to be a bit better.

Regards
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I have had to do it 2 times today, doesn't seem too big a deal to me, except for when my internet gets really bad :/
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I've actually stopped farming cause if it.

I really can't be bothered going through the motions of opening 50-60 web pages, they all open fine, then running through them hitting the attack button and then getting to the last one and noticing I've got a bot thing to fill in. so ya fill it in, close all your tabs down and then open all the tabs again ... the act of Bookmarking is all designed to speed up the process of farming, and yet this totally daft idea of bot protection counteracts the idea of bookmarking by slowing the whole process down.

Simply refreshing the tabs would restore your tabs to working order once you've filled in one bot protection box.

Anyway, as Tracey said there are a number of improvements in the works for bot protection - having some idea of what is to come, I'd say they ought to improve matters greatly.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

Facebook is such a convenience at times when certain people kinda enlighten me as to a discussion I may be part of, despite my recently-founded heavy dislike of this game. I assure you, I will probably not read the responses to this post for several months, it depends on how much I can be bothered to see people critique my post.

In short, INNOGAMES are decided to wage war on bots in order to promote manual methods of farming/attacking/playing TW.

Their argument is that botters should not be permitted to outplay the manual players which the sheer superiority that bots bring.

Now, allow me to elaborate why this is a wholly illogical argument.

TribalWars suffers from a net decrease in paying players. We need to identify why this is the case.

The main reason is that TribalWars takes TOO much time to play at any competitive level.

Many players, having started playing TW, aim to be the best. Some don't. That's fine. But I am considering those that have an ambition to do well at this game, which is anything but a minority. This moves us onto the question:

Why does TW take so much time to play competitively?

Because of the sheer effectiveness of farming, where the more resources you farm, the better, this encourages (what I like to call) "no-lifeism".

(Yes, by that logic, I completely accept that when I was "playing" competitively, I was subject to no-lifeism to an extent).

No-lifeism is not a desirable thing. It is supremely unhealthy. How so?
  • Encourages long periods infront of the computer (eyes/back damage?)
  • Encourages repetitive strain injuries from manual farming etc
  • Discourages real-life social interactions, which are vitally important.
  • Encourages seclusion from real life, which can lead to depression, anxiety, and possible death (e.g. suicide)
  • Neglect of oneself or one's relations is possible too due to obsession with a game. This is simiar to many other games such as WoW and Runescape, where obsessed people have been known to die infront of their computer.
Ok, so how does all the above relate to botting?

Firstly we have to consider the following : Why do people bot?

Having admitted that I am aware of some techniques of botting, I believe I can offer some reasoning as to why people choose to bot.

  • It removes the need for manual tasks when playing TW.
  • This removes what is not considered "fun" by the player/consumer.
  • As TribalWars is considered a "game", fun is the return a consumer gets.
  • Therefore, one could argue that a botter seeks to maximise his fun.
  • Also, it allows the player to not be tied to his computer; he can persue RL ambitions while at the same time, be as competitive as the manual "no-lifers" he competes with.
  • Botting also prevents repetitive strain injuries and generally enhances the wellbeing of the player.
  • The increased wellbeing can be correlated to an extended time playing the game, and thus INCREASING REVENUE FOR INNOGAMES.
Thus, by the above, it has been proven, that botting is beneficial for the health and wellbeing of the player, and financially beneficial for INNOGAMES.

Now, I'm sure many of the manual players will be thinking:

"No, I don't want botters to beat me, I'm not computer-literate to design my own bots and beat other botters!"

That's a *very* fair statement; no one wants to *lose* their advantage (even if that advantage is chronic "no-lifeism").

Thus, how can we rectify the advantage a computer-literate bot designer has over a layman?

Simple.

There are two options, and both can be used in tandem if necessary.

  • INNOGAMES inserts their OWN botting program to give universal access to ALL players to bots, allowing some parameters for players to adjust according to their needs - I'm sure forum guide writers will be quick to advise on what to input in the said parameters. Examples of parameters can include "unit to farm with", "distance from village", "permit overlap of farm runs?", "Barbarian point range?" etc etc
  • Allow scripters to design bots, and have the script hosted on INNOGAMES server if needed. The bot scripts can then be added to the quickbar like any other script.
Now, I do confess I have no idea how to go about designing the above; I'm a layman in that respect. But hey, its an idea, and it would probably do well for TribalWars as a whole.

So yes, in conclusion, I *AM* advocating the use of bots, and its simply amusing that INNOGAMES seeks to stop bots, when in they could be so much more *clever* with them. I mean, come on guys, seriously? I'm not even out of uni yet, and even I'm coming up with some clever ways to *utilise* an asset to the game.

Rather than brand bots as enemies of TribalWars, consider making them *part* of TribalWars. If everyone's on a level playing field, with everyone having complete access to bots, surely that would solve the bot problem of botters overwhelming the "no-lifers"? And on the plus side, it would probably help those who *are* addicted to TW to still play it, but within healthy limits (and as INNOGAMES charges in monthly installments, this won't affect revenue).

To those who question why I've decided to make this post, or why I've even dared to come back to the forums (briefly) to post this; hear this: While I do not ever intend to play this game again, I do wish that TribalWars changes for the better and that some players do NOT go down the same route as me as becoming addicted for 3 years, and glorifying in a internet-reputation and ego that really doesn't have any value at all, when put in perspective.

For the record, I will not discuss whether or not I bot (you can form whatever conclusions you wish, I'm not playing TW ever again hehe), nor should my advocation of botting serve as proof that I *do* bot (again you may form your own conclusions).

To Tracey, cheers for the ban, but next time, try to ban me when I'm playing my account, rather than banning an innocent player who takes over an account I owned, despite clear IPs showing I hadn't logged on there for ages. Just a tip. :icon_wink:

To Typhi, I do remember having an educated conversation with you regarding modding on net. in which your style of conversation was extremely friendly, and I sincerely wish you well trying to mod the UK server. Your job is easier because I'm not there after all. Although: this did make me laugh. I think the phrase "helping to keep the forums going" may be true here. :p

I apologise if any of the above is considered offensive or against the forum rules; I have made every effort to comply with the rules.

Back to real-life for me, it is.

Adellion
Ego > Space & Time (Nothing special, really :icon_rolleyes:)

P.S. Big up to that special someone who pointed this thread out for me. He/she knows who he/she is. :icon_wink:
 
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DeletedUser8687

Guest
wow ade! thats a fair read, only skimmed it and My opinion on botters is they play to gain an advantage over other players, an unfair advantage at that. True, TW is a game and fun is the return but farming is one of those chores that needs doing. Its the same as Level grinding in Pokemon or final fantasy games. Not everybody has the time and if you dont, you have to make the time or accept being average :p Theres a no haul world coming to .net maybe thats for player who cba farming fairly.

Anyway the reason im posting is to talk about my experience with the bot protection, I had the misfortune of breaking my keyboard :( i could still farm using bookmarked farms and basically do everything apart from comment on the forums. Everything worked out fine untill the bloody bot protection screen came up!! It stoped me farming efficiently untill I came up with the idea of pasting the numbers individually from the attack ID forum. I hate bot protection!!!! But i see that it is needed unfortunatly.
 

DeletedUser1410

Guest
Adellion has many good points there? instead of stopping things like this why don't the Mods write it into the game?
I have before asked the same question about other things like some scripts, ie Mass Recruit and the like.
If everyone did it then wouldn't that be a level playing field?
I think so!
Adellion, I totally agree with the sat at the computer, I've been playing 2 years coming up, and have gotten better over the years at start up, so know were your coming from.
Its a same that you have left or been kicked out.
Respect
Ruffus
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Ade's proposal is a nice idea but I still see problems with it, especially unexpected consequences. I some how doubt everyone would be able to bot, especially those who play from workplace, but the main issue about botting is it can get out of hand, those who know how it works can really come up with some crazy stuff which I would be afraid completely alter the game play, in the sense that it could easily become a case of who can bot the best. This game is largely manual and mathematical, I prefer it that way.

Instead of giving in to the issue perhaps it would be best to promote more ways around the problem. I find that if people were to set up bookmark farming from the moment barbs are fully grown and keep them updated by adding new ones as villas are conquered well at that point farming can become very efficient and not at all time consuming. Setting it up when you already have 300+ villas is extremely annoying however start doing it from the 10 village stage, update it regularly and you'll have no problems. In fact I believe people don't realize how simple but effective method of farming it is, myself included until recently.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Adellion bots himself. I shown him how to bot, but I didn't show him a very good way... all his does is records his clicks and what he does, then repeats itself, also I know Adellions bot don't do the bot protection for him and when the bot protection comes up it will mess his bot up. I've got a bot which does the bot protection, then carrys on farming/building. I don't bot now, as I don't even play Tribalwars now. I know it can't be detected. All that bot protection does is mess most botters up.

Runescape is a alot bigger online game, then Tribalwars and they can't even catch bots that use reflection, so I'm certain Tribalwars can't detect it.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Adellion bots himself. I shown him how to bot, but I didn't show him a very good way... all his does is records his clicks and what he does, then repeats itself, also I know Adellions bot don't do the bot protection for him and when the bot protection comes up it will mess his bot up. I've got a bot which does the bot protection, then carrys on farming/building. I don't bot now, as I don't even play Tribalwars now. I know it can't be detected. All that bot protection does is mess most botters up.

Runescape is a alot bigger online game, then Tribalwars and they can't even catch bots that use reflection, so I'm certain Tribalwars can't detect it.

I do not deny the bolded; but as far as I know, that was the best way you knew at the time, though I am aware you have sinced improved your methods. Genuine kudos for that.

Its amusing that while the bot protection has screwed up casual botters, it fails to defend against extremely well-programmed bots (well done, Grant), which means its only a matter of time before the botting problem comes up again.

INNOGAMES cannot defeat bots, they can only slow the inevitable. As long as there are other Grant's around to outsmart INNOGAMES, INNOGAMES can never win.

If you can't beat them, join them. I refer back to my previous post, INNOGAMES about bot implementation. The best type is if the bots work even when a player is LOGGED OUT of their account. Also, expansion of mobile technology so that players can remotely stop their bot if they detect incoming attacks etc may be another way forward for INNOGAMES. With further advances in mobile technology, this idea can only become more achieveable. Good luck.

P.S. Surprised I haven't been flamed yet for my post :icon_rolleyes:
 

DeletedUser8687

Guest
I do not deny the bolded; but as far as I know, that was the best way you knew at the time, though I am aware you have sinced improved your methods. Genuine kudos for that.

Its amusing that while the bot protection has screwed up casual botters, it fails to defend against extremely well-programmed bots (well done, Grant), which means its only a matter of time before the botting problem comes up again.

INNOGAMES cannot defeat bots, they can only slow the inevitable. As long as there are other Grant's around to outsmart INNOGAMES, INNOGAMES can never win.

If you can't beat them, join them. I refer back to my previous post, INNOGAMES about bot implementation. The best type is if the bots work even when a player is LOGGED OUT of their account. Also, expansion of mobile technology so that players can remotely stop their bot if they detect incoming attacks etc may be another way forward for INNOGAMES. With further advances in mobile technology, this idea can only become more achieveable. Good luck.

P.S. Surprised I haven't been flamed yet for my post :icon_rolleyes:

I have to agree with you there ade. In my ccollege there are lost of proggrammers who have told me ingenious methods used to bot and hack systems. There is no way of winning and the botters will only create new ways around problems. You cant eradicate it only slow it.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
... Theres a no haul world coming to .net maybe thats for player who cba farming fairly ...

I think they may have found the solution there. If there are no hauls and other things like fake limits, why would people need bots, and even if they did use bots the advantage would be negligible.

The next UK world should be no hauls, speed 2 or 3, so people can concentrate on actual game tactics and teamwork rather than the need to farm for those precious nobles.
 
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