Communism. Your views?

[DeletedUser]

The failures of communism have been largely down to the reactionary and anti-communist forces that influence other countries, not because the ideology itself is flawed. Whatever the reasons, it has failed wherever it has been attempted.

Communism and capitalism are not opposites, btw. Where people here have been discussing them as opposites, they have really been talking about the ideologies of centrally-planning and free markets. No actual economic system has ever been entirely one or the other.

A lot of people here seem to think that personnal income is an important part of communism. I think "who earns what" is far less important than "who owns what" in communist doctrine. In a communist country, a doctor may earn more than a banana-picker, but they will have an equal share in the hospital and banana plantation. Communism allows for elitism.

 

[DeletedUser]

The failures of communism have been largely down to the reactionary and anti-communist forces that influence other countries, not because the ideology itself is flawed. Whatever the reasons, it has failed wherever it has been attempted.

Communism and capitalism are not opposites, btw. Where people here have been discussing them as opposites, they have really been talking about the ideologies of centrally-planning and free markets. No actual economic system has ever been entirely one or the other.

A lot of people here seem to think that personnal income is an important part of communism. I think "who earns what" is far less important than "who owns what" in communist doctrine. In a communist country, a doctor may earn more than a banana-picker, but they will have an equal share in the hospital and banana plantation. Communism allows for elitism.

But there were reactionary and anti-communist forces because of a, Capitalism and b, problems with communism. They aren't opposites no, but there are distinct differences.

Personal income is most important to keep the people happy. If they don't have enough disposable income to buy their food, then they will naturally feel that communism is cheating them. Capitalism allows for even more elitism than communism, and even though i do not agree with elitism I think it's needed to keep things running.

The only perfect way of sorting out ideals etc.. would be to get rid of all types of greed. But since that's impossible, satisfying the greed to a certain level seems to only be the next best thing.

 

[DeletedUser613]

Vietnams one of the poorest countries in the world,

no it isn't :/

 

[DeletedUser]

Banned again Seary, wth?

 

[DeletedUser]

The failures of communism have been largely down to the reactionary and anti-communist forces that influence other countries, not because the ideology itself is flawed. Whatever the reasons, it has failed wherever it has been attempted.

Communism and capitalism are not opposites, btw. Where people here have been discussing them as opposites, they have really been talking about the ideologies of centrally-planning and free markets. No actual economic system has ever been entirely one or the other.

A lot of people here seem to think that personnal income is an important part of communism. I think "who earns what" is far less important than "who owns what" in communist doctrine. In a communist country, a doctor may earn more than a banana-picker, but they will have an equal share in the hospital and banana plantation. Communism allows for elitism.

The various successful communist revolutions in South and Central America? Yes they've failed for one reason. These anti-communist forces your talking about were funded, trained and armed by the CIA. These right wing leaders would then commit the most awful crimes, all in the name of anti-communism.

Revolutions failed during the cold war because the revolution soon turned into civil wars, with many countries and the US funding and arming the various sides of the conflict.

 

[DeletedUser]

Reordering the way society is run will hurt the most powerful. Redistributing wealth will hurt the richest. Such revolutions will always have powerful, rich enemies at home. The rich and powerful elsewhere will usually be opposed too, as they do not want revolutions to be seen to work in case the ideas spread.

 

[DeletedUser]

fails

 

[DeletedUser]

Reordering the way society is run will hurt the most powerful. Redistributing wealth will hurt the richest. Such revolutions will always have powerful, rich enemies at home. The rich and powerful elsewhere will usually be opposed too, as they do not want revolutions to be seen to work in case the ideas spread.

Your not explaining how these revolutions fail. These revolutions are hated by the richest of the country, however a decent revolution shares the support of the majority of the population and this often defeats even the richest individuals for example Cuba.

Revolution has also happened after world war, for example the communist government of Yugoslavia was set-up after the second world war with massive support from the people.

 

[DeletedUser]

fails

Care to elaborate on that obvious brilliant response?

 

[DeletedUser]

I think its safe to say that on the whole communism has been unsuccessful. It may have had its good points or might have worked if certain things happened but the point is they didn't.

Most "communist" countries today don't really have strong communist themes or do well for themselves. Vietnams one of the poorest countries in the world, you can't really call China communist now and Cub is hardly a world superpower.

I know there are often other reasons why the system might have failed (generally the US...) but until theres a decent communist world superpower I don't think you can say it works. (And I mean proper communism, not a pale imitation)

Vietnam is one of the regions major economic powers
China is still relatively communist
Cuba is still a pretty amazing country and it has a healthcare system that even rivals the US 'first world' system.

Also read my post for a proper explanation of why communism has failed in certain countries.

 

[DeletedUser]

Vietnam is one of the regions major economic powers
China is still relatively communist
Cuba is still a pretty amazing country and it has a healthcare system that even rivals the US 'first world' system.

Also read my post for a proper explanation of why communism has failed in certain countries.

I was kind of wrong on Vietnams current state, its poverty was far worse years ago after their little war. Its still not exactly a poster state for Communism.

China is still slightly communist but capatalism has what i see as a stronger presence there. Its by no means a full communist state still.

Cuba is certainly a bit of an exception as its services are pretty good (from a quick skim of wiki) . Again its not exactly a major economic power in the world and I think there are mmany capatalist countries better off.

It seems you need a mix of both to survive, there's no such thing as a pure communist state.

I don't think we'll be seeing a surge of communism any time soon though (but this may in part be to do with most world powers disliking the idea)

 

[DeletedUser]

I was kind of wrong on Vietnams current state, its poverty was far worse years ago after their little war. Its still not exactly a poster state for Communism.

China is still slightly communist but capatalism has what i see as a stronger presence there. Its by no means a full communist state still.

Cuba is certainly a bit of an exception as its services are pretty good (from a quick skim of wiki) . Again its not exactly a major economic power in the world and I think there are mmany capatalist countries better off.

It seems you need a mix of both to survive, there's no such thing as a pure communist state.

I don't think we'll be seeing a surge of communism any time soon though (but this may in part be to do with most world powers disliking the idea)

Vietnam had major infrastructure damage due to the United States bombing campaign and the economic reforms that the country had to under-go after the war. Now it's undergoing strong economic growth and an improved infrastructure.

China is still relatively communist although it had changed to sell to capitalist countries, although that is expected due to the fall of the Soviet Union.

A success of a certain political system especially communism is not entirely based on economic success. Cuba has managed to keep a respectable economy, educational and healthcare system even though they are still under this illegal embargo, although the embargo was created as a means to stop the Soviet Union gaining missile and other military bases on the doorstep of the United States and this serves no purpose as the cold war is over.

The Gambia is poor so that must mean that capitalism is a complete failure amrite?

 

[DeletedUser]

Vietnam had major infrastructure damage due to the United States bombing campaign and the economic reforms that the country had to under-go after the war. Now it's undergoing strong economic growth and an improved infrastructure.

China is still relatively communist although it had changed to sell to capitalist countries, although that is expected due to the fall of the Soviet Union.

A success of a certain political system especially communism is not entirely based on economic success. Cuba has managed to keep a respectable economy, educational and healthcare system even though they are still under this illegal embargo, although the embargo was created as a means to stop the Soviet Union gaining missile and other military bases on the doorstep of the United States and this serves no purpose as the cold war is over.

The Gambia is poor so that must mean that capitalism is a complete failure amrite?

Then again if you look at it, all of these countries rely on the USA. It's funny how such an anti-communist state is funding communism in China, Vietnam and Cuba.

 

[DeletedUser]

Then again if you look at it, all of these countries rely on the USA. It's funny how such an anti-communist state is funding communism in China, Vietnam and Cuba.

How does the USA fund Cuba?

 

[DeletedUser]

Then again if you look at it, all of these countries rely on the USA. It's funny how such an anti-communist state is funding communism in China, Vietnam and Cuba.

The United States is a massive importer of goods, it would be quite insane not to pass up such a great chance to improve your economy. Spend the profits on upgrading your infrastructure and purchasing Russian military equipment.

Vietnamese economic policy has been forced to change since the end of the cold war, as before they could trade with countries in the Soviet Bloc they've had to find countries to fill this trade gap and the United States economy is driven off cheap goods from across the world so it make sense to exploit that greed.

Countries are acting fast to ditch the US dollar and scrambling to the gold reserve. If you want some tips watch the Kieser(sp?) report and you'll realise that the dollar and the entire US economy is going down the toilet, even more so even the bonehead republicans get into power.

 

[DeletedUser613]

I was kind of wrong on Vietnams current state, its poverty was far worse years ago after their little war. Its still not exactly a poster state for Communism.

China is still slightly communist but capatalism has what i see as a stronger presence there. Its by no means a full communist state still.

Cuba is certainly a bit of an exception as its services are pretty good (from a quick skim of wiki) . Again its not exactly a major economic power in the world and I think there are mmany capatalist countries better off.

It seems you need a mix of both to survive, there's no such thing as a pure communist state.

I don't think we'll be seeing a surge of communism any time soon though (but this may in part be to do with most world powers disliking the idea)

Little war :lol:
What do you expect after millions of its citizens and its infastructure is completely carpet bombed, for them to be rich?
The fact that they are recovering so well is a miracle.

 

[DeletedUser]

The Gambia is poor so that must mean that capitalism is a complete failure amrite?

Could point out more rich capatalist countries than communist countries.

I'm generally against communism as at this current point in time, it doesn't work. Maybe if we were using communism in ancient times we might have had a chance at it working. But today there isn't enough resources to share equally round so capatalism will always win. I'm sure some countries will benefit from using the odd idea from communism but as a system it can't be fully implemented.

 

[DeletedUser]

today there isn't enough resources to share equally round so capatalism will always win

i don't think it's that there's a lack of resources. everywhere that uses money is capitalist.

 

[DeletedUser613]

Could point out more rich capatalist countries than communist countries.

I'm generally against communism as at this current point in time, it doesn't work. Maybe if we were using communism in ancient times we might have had a chance at it working. But today there isn't enough resources to share equally round so capatalism will always win. I'm sure some countries will benefit from using the odd idea from communism but as a system it can't be fully implemented.

there are more capitalist countries than communist countries, therefore giving them more of a chance of being rich

 

[DeletedUser]

How does the USA fund Cuba?

Cuban Cigars ofcourse!!!

Not to mention the sugar, Cocao and Tobacco produced in Cuba, I wouldn't be surprised if USA didn't buy them in, since they are so close.

My point being anyway was that (referring to my other thread on USA) the USA really do have their fingers in all pies, even the communist ones that they've fought for many years with.

They seem to feel that military actions comes first, economic sanctions comes when stuff gets real heavy. They live in a backwards world >.<