Searching for ideas

[DeletedUser]

I help them if they're in my Tribe but do you help EVERYONE?
That would get a bit tiresome wouldn't it? If someone attacks you with spears and stuff, you correct them, sure but do you actually teach new players around you how to play better?

No, not everyone only when asked.

Say, I put in context,

New player starts at rim of a new world (so what k24? k23?) don't really know what they are doing see a person near them that has x vills x points, seems like they know what they are doing, and then new player will then message player x and question.

I did this, and i was met with a response that wasn't entirely understood by me...or taken the wrong way by me. either way when i get frustrated with something, you know when your getting a reponse back. Having this convo with nauz now in pm.

I say a public apology for 'staring' out a word. OK, but in my defence, who reads the rules? Especially when they are long as. I bet no one read it. I am just acting on human instinct that some other human like me will pm me when i do something wrong and tell me how to correct, instead of jumping to conclusions.

 

[DeletedUser]

I more meant people on the forums who ask questions, or people who specifically mail me ingame with a question. Also often help people start up properly if they agree to restart so that way I'm helping them without directly hindering myself (ie. teaching someone right next to you on the map the best way to farm is going to dramatically hurt your own farming).

That's what I've done on .net...
I'll do it more if it'll increase the rate .uk grows though (Y)

 

[DeletedUser]

However...

Time and time again I find that the problem is the fact that the more long term players do create there own "elite" group which excludes newbs, again both IG and on the externals to a lesser extent. My plan to overcome this both getting newbs involved IG and on the externals....

Create Tribe quotas based on experiance, no more than 3 players that have been here for over a year (especialy as these probably came from .net as well) no more than 5 players that have been on over 6 months (in addition to the other 3 so you can have 8 6 month plus players. No more than 10 players with over 3 months ( this essentialy limits tribes to 18 players if you want non newbs) then any amount of newbs up to whatever tribe limit the world is on. Then you get a top down learning system automaticaly in new worlds. You dont get elite domination. If the elite want a good tribe they will have to pass their knowledge on. Will also make the externals more interesting!! Of course staff will have to keep an eye on IP's for people just making a new account

Put those all together and it makes it a much more involved experience for the newbs, rather than like me having to spend a couple of months getting good enough and 'in' enough to get any real enjoyment!!

Part of my previous post on this thread.... I just like it so much I felt I needed to put this segment in again.... I get 2 double post it as im one of the exact newbs that you guys need in .co.uk and hey still think its a great solution for everything you guys are talking about!!

 

[Nauzhror]

However...

Time and time again I find that the problem is the fact that the more long term players do create there own "elite" group which excludes newbs, again both IG and on the externals to a lesser extent. My plan to overcome this both getting newbs involved IG and on the externals....

Create Tribe quotas based on experiance, no more than 3 players that have been here for over a year (especialy as these probably came from .net as well) no more than 5 players that have been on over 6 months (in addition to the other 3 so you can have 8 6 month plus players. No more than 10 players with over 3 months ( this essentialy limits tribes to 18 players if you want non newbs) then any amount of newbs up to whatever tribe limit the world is on. Then you get a top down learning system automaticaly in new worlds. You dont get elite domination. If the elite want a good tribe they will have to pass their knowledge on. Will also make the externals more interesting!! Of course staff will have to keep an eye on IP's for people just making a new account

Put those all together and it makes it a much more involved experience for the newbs, rather than like me having to spend a couple of months getting good enough and 'in' enough to get any real enjoyment!!

There's a few problems with the idea.

1. People can create "shadow tribes" and work together whether they are technically in the same tribe or not. By this I mean a skype chat, and possibly an external forum and work towards the same goals as their friends whether or not they are technically in the same tribe or not.

2. Experience and skill are not very well correlated. I can teach someone who is intelligent anf eager to learn to play better than most people who have played for two years in under a week.

3. Cross-checking several thousand IP's is incredibly time consuming in most cases and down-right impossible in others due to dynamic IP's.

 

[DeletedUser]

There's a few problems with the idea.

1. People can create "shadow tribes" and work together whether they are technically in the same tribe or not. By this I mean a skype chat, and possibly an external forum and work towards the same goals as their friends whether or not they are technically in the same tribe or not.

Well it is tribal wars, this is probably not a massive massive issue....
As a newb if this is happening at least you get to be part of it. Make it a requirement for any tribe to have at least 5 players with under 3 months and at least they are involved. If they dont like it they can mutiny and the tribe automaticaly gets disbanded.

2. Experience and skill are not very well correlated. I can teach someone who is intelligent anf eager to learn to play better than most people who have played for two years in under a week.

hmmmm I might pm you at some point


3. Cross-checking several thousand IP's is incredibly time consuming in most cases and down-right impossible in others due to dynamic IP's.

Ok you win as everyone knows this is probably what would happen, if it cant be managed it cant work, neither can my other idea of a purely newb world.... however I think a few newbs are enjoying W5 as the older players got bored pretty quick so at tleast they can play

Will keep on thinking

Parting comment is that the new player problem (what I see as the main problem to be discussed in this thread, rather than attack defence issues) isnt so much about gameplay/learning. It is much more about being able to break into the established 'community'. Flaming Noobs is one thing, Newbs is another, I have seen this a lot and pointed it out and the effect it has on getting in new players in lots of threads,,,

Right back to the drawing board...

Usual thing, comments in blue .....

 

[DeletedUser]

Usual thing, comments in blue .....

what you mean.

whose noobs and whose newbs to you?

noobs to me are players who are incompetent of learning whilst newbs are just new and want to learn.

Thus, the ones who ask, surely are newbs not noobs.

 

[DeletedUser]

Heres a few ideas - that might be something to think about:
1. Set up a speed server style with a low speed setting like 2-10 times.

2. Get people that actually can lead or teach as Dukes and a few others as Barons that also have a good idea on how to play. These dukes and barons are given a months PP (as a suggestion) to help others improve their skills.

3. Set the round so a high (3 times defense) night bonus is on for most of the time - excluding a couple hours a day or only on weekends - barbs are not included in night bonus. Or have a fairly long BP - like 2 - 3 weeks so everyone can get used to farming barbs and sorting out how to get a decent set up.

4. All players wishing to join must either pay, or have the first 100 in free and then say a nominal PP to enter for the rest.

5. All newer players are automatically assigned to a tribe, this will allow tribes to be evenly matched.

The aim of the round is to be the top tribe after a a few weeks, months etc. and the winner gets a prize. (Sig or PP or whatever). There should be also a setting that allows no tribe member to attack each other or no alliance support. After BP ends the tribes can either fight each other or have alliances - none before.

This idea is based solely on a teaching round, that allows new members to learn how to play TW and understand how to get a decent start up, as well as learn how activity and setting up farming runs, use of quick bar etc increases their chance of not constantly getting farmed or rimmed. It is based on W27.net but with a defined Leader structure and allowances for beginners to have a lot more breathing room to set their vils up. As well as getting to know the players in their tribe.

Perhaps these setting could be incorporated in a "tutorial world", and people picked to teach would be selected by the mods etc? There however, remains the debate as to who would be picked. Some leaders are good leaders, but only when working with good players. I'm not sure whether most conventional good leaders would work quite so effectively with newbs. That being said, a good leader would relish a challenge,no?
Don't really like the idea of evenly matched tribes (unless on a proposed "tutorial world"), this is a war game, and one of the things that newbs must be reminded of is defeat, if they don't learn fast, they won't learn at all. And it would ruin the game for those players who want to unite with other good players. Birds of a feather tendency after all.

 

[DeletedUser2918]

i'm not sure a tutorial world is the right way to go here - purely because i dont think they'd be a huge take up on it. Sure a few would join up but how many up there who have ever bought a strategy game actually played to the end any 'practice' levels before you jumped straight into the game??

You'd need a lot of beginners to join at the same time - otherwise you could end up in the middle of nowhere with no active players around you (cos they all quit after 2 days to join the 'real' tribalwars game). This would give a false impression of the game and could turn people off it - after all one of the most enjoyable things about TW is the tribe interaction.

and many of the other ideas almost 'force' regular players to take on newer ones. Any leader worth his salt would do that anyway and help - but forcing people to do it could just create bad feeling and make the new person stick out and feel even worse. End of the day 'elite' tribes never last in my personal experience. The players are all off to the next world by the time they reach 20 villages and its the new players that actually form the backbone of long lasting tribes.

Isnt the problem here as simple (?) as altering the introduction tutuorial? I've not done it for ages but maybe it should accompany you till you build a paladin (for those worlds) then tell you to attack the nearest barb village, then something like "congratulations - you have just farmed your first village. Farming is an integral part of TW to get you the resources you need to grow properly. All the best players farm as often as possible"

A 'quick win' could also be to tidy up the strategies and guides section of the forum- lets face it theres 6 pages on there and i can see at least 2 threads ("Awards" and "New Version did something") on the first page that have no place on there.

The 4 stickies that are there arent exactly new player user friendly. Thargs sticky "the basics you should know" is very good - but is it really the BASICS you should know? And there is a hell of a lot of text there as well as things such as "if i catch people doing XYZ then ABC!!!" - not very new player friendly!

Sticky a subject "Start up guides - important tactics for old and new players" (or something like that) and put links to the most popular guides in it. I mean when i started it was about 4 or 5 days before i got round to reading a guide - and then i stumbled on it purely because i was bored and was going through the forums thread by thread. These start up guides are best during the first 2 days however. If you linked this thread in the start up tutorial as well then bonus! In fact best would be to create a series of 3 or 4 stickies/guides that cover "0 to 2 weeks" (takes the best of Thargs + everything else out there and puts it into nice little captions that those with limited attention span might actually get through) and so on...

so - theres a lot of text up there so apologies. But in summary i guess i'm saying:

• clean up the strategies and guides forum
• create some more beginner friendly stickies
• once done link those stickies and/or incorporate them into the beginning tutorial
  
  
  

in fact i might just go away and write all them guides right now......should only take 2 secs.......:lol:

 

[DeletedUser]

tutorial world? are people really say that would be good as its a bad idea, add a guild like a vid, or story borad, give it history, name the new player as a born soilder in a fight, to be best, creat a tw fairytale

basically if u have to spend time learning how to play then having to actually play is bad, you play tribal wars becasue u want to be in the action of a proper would, plus its a waste of rl time, tw takes time to grow and be all you can, if you have to learn before u can really play its a waste
plus if a tutorial world, they will have to be no cost. prem account, as unfair, and its only a waste of learning if u have to pay, just to learn when you want all the same level,

i say up date tw, make a new wave, get the paying people in its a money eraner after all,

the advertising is poor, needs more action in it, a bost of exitment that catches the eye,
prem skins, on the normal background to peoples accounts, have a specail prem use to add personal, or style to the user of that accoount, may be also unlocking new perks as they grow like rewards, that you can feel, i know like attacker of the day is cool, but u cant use it,

a app on your map in game, that the one on the right that shows the villages all around you can zoom in and out to see all the world or larger view for prem users

lets be fair you need a mix of players u never going to get all paying so you need as many as u can to intertan the paying tw users, unless a hardcore world where u reach umm 25k in points then you have to by tw law bye a prem account to keep paying

also what about new units and troops, could be for prem users or not, and buildings like split troops up, eg add archer range for MA and archers and add new troops lile elephant to stables or barrack's new centurion, or slingers

add exitment back lol or im talking complete noise

 

[DeletedUser117]

This world would be basically a HP round. The challenge for the leaders would be to see how good they can get new or inexperienced players. Honestly I have been playing for quite a few years, but even now I dont claim to know everything about all aspects of TW.

The bonus of a HP round, would be the leaders get challenged by the tribe's quest for knowledge. The tribal members get the required knowledge as well as the ability to talk to more experienced players.

Dont forget TW is not just about timing attacks, farming and so on. Its about decent PnP - which we are lacking abit here as well as diplomacy and efficient use of quickbar, learning when to hit a player and what to look for in regards to nobel targets and potential farms.

The HP round will be a real world, just set up in favour of newer players. Anyone can be online, farm etc and grow quickly. But does everyone know how to use the externals in such a way to make an enemy tribe quit? The reason I suggested this was because alot of very experienced players have left, taking with them quality posts in the external forums. We need not just to liven up the forums and worlds, we need people that can post interesting PnP as well as play the game.

 

[DeletedUser]

Lots of interesting ideas but I think the most simple is sleep mode, say a maximum of 6 hours a day of the player's choosing. That way the defender chooses when he's online (to a certain extent). During sleep mode the player can't be attacked or supported, and recruitment, building and resources all freeze (or maybe reduce by 50%).

 

[DeletedUser2918]

Lots of interesting ideas but I think the most simple is sleep mode, say a maximum of 6 hours a day of the player's choosing. That way the defender chooses when he's online (to a certain extent). During sleep mode the player can't be attacked or supported, and recruitment, building and resources all freeze (or maybe reduce by 50%).

but when do you set that sleep mode Phropp?

for example - i throw 150 attacks at you. mix of fakes and nukes, different villages of yours all about 3 days out...takes me about 3 days to send them out in the right order...then you pick the 6 hours to 'sleep' when my attacks land......and nothing happens.

great for you.......but not so great for a war game.

 

[DeletedUser]

But your attacks will have already been sent?

 

[Nauzhror]

But your attacks will have already been sent?

Sleep mode has to do with when attacks land, not with when they were sent.

 

[DeletedUser857]

Isnt the problem here as simple (?) as altering the introduction tutuorial? I've not done it for ages but maybe it should accompany you till you build a paladin (for those worlds) then tell you to attack the nearest barb village, then something like "congratulations - you have just farmed your first village. Farming is an integral part of TW to get you the resources you need to grow properly. All the best players farm as often as possible"

Sticky a subject "Start up guides - important tactics for old and new players" (or something like that) and put links to the most popular guides in it. I mean when i started it was about 4 or 5 days before i got round to reading a guide - and then i stumbled on it purely because i was bored and was going through the forums thread by thread. These start up guides are best during the first 2 days however. If you linked this thread in the start up tutorial as well then bonus! In fact best would be to create a series of 3 or 4 stickies/guides that cover "0 to 2 weeks" (takes the best of Thargs + everything else out there and puts it into nice little captions that those with limited attention span might actually get through) and so on...

[gfx]In my opinion, these two ideas are perfect solutions to the problem of newer players finding it difficult to learn the ropes. I particularly like the idea of extending the tutorial to include farming a barb, as most new players have no concept of farming (why would they without anyone to tell them?) and thus grow very slowly and get nobled very quickly!

I would also like to volunteer that, after a player has been playing for a day or so, they receive some sort of mail/ notification/ splash screen- whatever- with something along the lines of "having trouble? Why not visit the forums to see some great tips for new players?". This would both promote activity in the forums, and encourage new players to learn from the vast array of guides.[/gfx]

 

[DeletedUser7966]

but when do you set that sleep mode Phropp?

for example - i throw 150 attacks at you. mix of fakes and nukes, different villages of yours all about 3 days out...takes me about 3 days to send them out in the right order...then you pick the 6 hours to 'sleep' when my attacks land......and nothing happens.

great for you.......but not so great for a war game.

Due to random discussions with Typhi on this matter, (for reasons that I can't remember) we decided that the only way sleep mode would work on a slow world (not Stw) is if SM was set to a fixed time you chose when you joined the world, and only changeable every so often, Eg, every 2 weeks, to allow for people who change locations for time to time.

Its not perfect, but it does help to solve the problem about the attacker choosing when defender is online, as the attacker would have to plan his attacks more around the defenders schedule, if he fails to do this he gets punished by his attacks just visiting =D

[gfx]In my opinion, these two ideas are perfect solutions to the problem of newer players finding it difficult to learn the ropes. I particularly like the idea of extending the tutorial to include farming a barb, as most new players have no concept of farming (why would they without anyone to tell them?) and thus grow very slowly and get nobled very quickly!

I would also like to volunteer that, after a player has been playing for a day or so, they receive some sort of mail/ notification/ splash screen- whatever- with something along the lines of "having trouble? Why not visit the forums to see some great tips for new players?". This would both promote activity in the forums, and encourage new players to learn from the vast array of guides.[/gfx]

Imo, a longer tutorial should get less vague as they progress, otherwise you end up with the same trouble other games that have a long tutorial in, where all beginner players start to play the same way, and thus become very predictable. A mail after a certain period of time linking players to the forums, or certain topics here that are specifically made for beginners (Might be a good idea for nauz, or another mod respected for high playing ability, to write a guide that helps players to comprehend different basic aspects of the game, (eg, importance of balancing farming with res pits depending on activity) but nothing to "wall of texty". Just something to introduce players to the idea of looking for tips and way to improve on the forums, rather than handing it to them on a plate in a step by step tutorial.

 

[Nauzhror]

I've not done it for ages but maybe it should accompany you till you build a paladin (for those worlds) then tell you to attack the nearest barb village, then something like "congratulations - you have just farmed your first village. Farming is an integral part of TW to get you the resources you need to grow properly. All the best players farm as often as possible"

I like this idea.

Sticky a subject "Start up guides - important tactics for old and new players" (or something like that) and put links to the most popular guides in it.

Not nearly as fond of this part.

Firstly, different people will disagree on which guides are the best.

Secondly following a guide won't make you a better player. It might make you do well when combined with a high level of activity; but not every player that does well is a skilled player. It doesn't matter if you do the "right things" if you don't understand why you're doing them as you won't be able to adapt like someone who is actually good at the game and not just following a guide verbatim.

In fact I think in general that it is quite likely that guides have done more harm than good to the community.

 

[DeletedUser2918]

agreed there Nauz - but if you linked to several then people could read and make their own minds up. I guess at its most basic its kind of creating an index page for the guides and strategies section - and clearing out some of the XX$!£$$ thats on there.

there's also some stuff that may/may not be pointed out in the guides that are just useful - for example that if you send spears out to farm send at least 7 (if i remember the number correctly) or some of them will die. Also that although when you start up it might well take you 2 days to build 200 axes this does not constitute a nuke to try and take out the 7k player next door to you :lol:

perhaps a thread - "things id wish id known when i started TW" and take the best out of it and put it into a summary (cos we know that eventually it'll be spammed to hell and they'll be 1 good piece of info for every 2 pages of rubbish :icon_redface. I dont know - guess i'm trying to throw some stuff out there that could be implemented quite quickly to catch new players as soon as possible. Creating new training worlds/implementing sleep worlds etc etc i'm guessing all take time to do.

I liked Sweetdeaths idea of a mail after a couple of days to remind people of the forums/ links to them to encourage forum activity - i swear to god some players have never even seen these pages, let alone posted on them.

But lets also bear in mind - finding your way around the forums for a first timer aint exactly the easiest thing in the world. Its fine if you have a few days but who starts out this game expecting it will take up this much of our time :icon_wink:

 

[DeletedUser7966]

In fact I think in general that it is quite likely that guides have done more harm than good to the community.

Thats because the majority of guides written are trying to tell players exactly what to do in as many scenarios as possible, and writers are trying to do step by step instructions for everything, rather than a guide that just guides players, giving them helpful tips, but letting them develop these in whichever way they choose, teaching them to understand, rather than blindly follow the instructions of someone else.

 

[Nauzhror]

Thats because the majority of guides written are trying to tell players exactly what to do in as many scenarios as possible, and writers are trying to do step by step instructions for everything, rather than a guide that just guides players, giving them helpful tips, but letting them develop these in whichever way they choose, teaching them to understand, rather than blindly follow the instructions of someone else.

That's one of the reasons.

The other big one is many guides are simply of awful quality and the newbies reading them and then following them don't know enough to realize that.